Ep. 38 - Beth Lesen, California State University, Long Beach

Leadership, laughter, and a little Dairy Queen debate? This episode has it all. Dr. Beth Lesen joins The Pickup Meeting to share how trust, compassion, and authentic leadership can transform campus culture, support first-generation students, and inspire teams to do their best work.

From rebuilding divisions and leading through crisis to career coaching, financial wellness, and the future of student affairs, Beth offers practical wisdom and insight for listeners. Plus, the crew tackles Dilly Bars vs. Blizzards, beach vacations, and why sometimes the best leadership advice is simply to slow down, stay curious, and care for people.

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Have a question? Want to chat? E-mail us at thepickupmeeting@gmail.com!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

And away we go. Welcome back to the pickup meeting broadcasting live from the intersection of Let's Take This Offline and Do We Have a Hard Stop. I'm Kevin Thomas, joined by the Chiefs Vibe Chief Vibes Officer of this show, my good friend Brody Brochier.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Oh you messed it up, but it was still pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Oh, it's so disappointing when I stumble through the Chief Vibes Officer. I didn't realize how hard that was gonna be to say. You should have practiced. I did, and apparently not enough.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Oh, it's all right. That's right. It's the thought that counts, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

That's right. Here we are coming to you on a Wednesday, recording on a Friday. Friday oh geez, here we go. Um, and we have some fun topics for the day before we welcome our guest on. Brody, we've been talking about this on our phone calls, which I think Matt really would love to record the phone calls because they're a little more vulgar, probably a little more out there than the show itself. But like you have new food discoveries that are occurring in your life, and I guess so do I.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yes. I was at I I was at an advisor social about a month ago. And you know, I grew up on the Dairy Queen. We talked about the Dairy Queen, I think, the the last time we recorded, even. And at this advisor social, one of the options was a butterscotch laced dilly bar. And I was like, what is this devil magic? Like it was delicious, unbelievable. Are you now they live in my now? They live in my brain, rent-free. And did you go buy some? I haven't bought any. I need to get to Jewel and see if they have some. And are you a regular Dilly Bar fan? I mean, who doesn't love a good dilly bar? I mean, they're delicious, but I've only known them with chocolate, and so the butterscotch thing was next level.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Great. Game changer, and only 200 calories. Who said that? You haven't gone to buy any. Did they live?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

They were on the it was in the package. I know. Like I'm tracking calories again. I was like, holy moly.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

Hmm. I uh I would eat a dilly bar, butterscotch or not, yeah. But my recent thing that I enjoy is anything sour related. And right, I just had these in front of my in front of my computer right now, sour pet patch kids. They are so good. And you like you add in that or nerd clusters, like sign me up. Like, I'm I've not been a real sweet candy person, and for some reason at this moment, it's hitting. That's awesome, right? Like now that the jelly bean season is over, no more Starburst jelly bean for me. Now I'm moving to the sour candies.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Those gummy sours are delicious. Have you had the nerd clusters? Like, that was another one that I'm really kind of into now, too. They're so good.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

And I listen, I hear they're great for your teeth.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Uh I've read that they're just essentially poison. I mean, in real life, like that they're made of such terrible chemicals.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Well, they're delicious.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

This segment's brought to you by Nerd Clusters. They're poison. But they taste delicious. They taste delicious. Uh, do you have bold food takes that you would die on?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Oh, I absolutely do.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Fish is disgusting. Fish is disgusting. This is a callback to the Todd Burrell episode when he was like, at the end of a hard week, I would love some salmon, and then Brody like vomits.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yes. Like I tuna is kind of the ire. Like all of my family enjoys tuna. And they'll make tuna casserole. I won't even clean the plates. Like, if you make tuna in my house, like you're on your own. It's disgusting.

SPEAKER_01 4:15

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of casseroles that are like tuna or chicken or any of it. Like, and so I'm with you on that, but yours is fish related. I mean, I just hate all fish. Like Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

I don't do sauces. That is weird, man. Like we were talking about this. You don't even eat ketchup.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I mean, in America, ketchup's like a food group.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

No, ketchup's nasty. What? Listen, ketchup can be in things, right? Like they like mixed in with things, but like by itself, like if you've got to dip something into ketchup, then you shouldn't be eating the something.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Fries? No. But I'm not like I'm also I well, I'll get wings and I love wings, but do not put the sauce on it. I will dip if I want to.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

You're weird.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, I am a little different. I guess we're all a little crazy with our food. Yeah, dips are better than sauces in my mind. Because then I control the balance.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

I I mean, I've always thought it'd be fun to do my own food show, but not eating fish feels like a disqualification. How many of those shows do you watch where they're eating seafood at some point in time?

SPEAKER_01 5:35

I always wondered how um Guy Fieri did his stuff for so long because he doesn't like eggs. Yeah, that that's uh crazy. This feels similar, except you have less hair than Guy Fieri.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

I I know and less money, probably, but um uh yeah, and I'm probably not as charming as him either. Maybe, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Hey, our our guest today is coming to us from California. Yeah. The and and we're gonna say the sunny state of, and and it made me think like, are you a beach vacation person or a city vacation person?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

I don't know. I was thinking about the vacations I've taken in the in the last 10 years, and in my two favorite vacations, one was beach related and one was city related. So I don't know that I have a good answer. Like we went to Vancouver in 2024 and it was amazing and really more outdoors amazing. Uh I mean Vancouver is a just a wonderful city, right? You've got island, the weather's pretty temperate, there's lots of nature close by, but in the city, there's like Stanley Park. I mean, it's the food is pretty amazing, it's a pretty diverse place. We just had fun city adventure, plus, we got kind of we did a couple of really big outdoors things. We did the grouse uh challenge, which is like this really hard climb, and that was super fun. Uh, but I've also been to Anna Maria Island, and we just kind of laid out on the beach and did hardly nothing, and that was great too.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

I don't I don't even know where Ann Maria Island is. Am I Anna Maria? Anna Maria, sorry. I don't know where this is at.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

It's in Florida, kind of near St. Pete, Clearwater.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, I think I am on the flip opposite of your statement, and that and and you're not really picking one because you're saying both can be great. I am not, I am walking the line, and I just think that I'm so I I just think I'm unique to where I'm at, and like so there are cities I enjoy, and then there are cities I for sure do not. But the true answer to this is the beach is stupid. You all like the beach. I don't want the beach, I don't want the sand, I don't want the sun, I don't want to sit near strange people and have to worry about their behaviors. I am good, keep me away from the beach. The last time I was on a beach, I went into the water, and what is it, the the manatee, the the cow of the sea? Yeah, yeah. Like I am in the water, and there's a woman in front of me, and she says, do not turn around. And at that moment, I think I'm about to die. And then I feel something brush my leg, and I turn around because something just brushed my leg in the ocean, and it was a rather large manatee just going and doing its thing, which was very cool, but also could have been a shark. Let's just talk about that. It could have been a shark, and so no, thank you. I'm done, I'm out. I think that it was a very peaceful moment. Everyone says, How cool! Okay, I'm done.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

I love being really close to dolphins. We we did this, we did this thing in Panama City with a dolphin guy, like a dolphin tour, and he had us jumping into the water when the dolphins were kind of you know hopping over us. It was pretty fun, and I didn't do any of that because I can't remember why I didn't do it. I just enjoyed the kids doing it, cat doing it. But they're like the dolphins are so close, it was pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

I that sounds terrifying too. It was pretty fun. I don't get it. You're so much more adventurous than me. I do like adventure, there's no doubt about that. Yes, yes, standing in line at record stores and not swimming with the dolphins. You are right, you are out of control, you rebel.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

The grouse grind is hard. You do it, and when we went to Zion, we did all we did a lot of big hiking last year, too. Like, we're we're up for it. All right, listen, you you do you. I'm I'm proud of you. And I mean, I can't, I I can't run into manatees or black bears in the cabins. Like, I'm not, I'm not you, Kevin. Like, your brushes with death. I mean, I'm sorry. I mean, almost death. I mean, no death at all. Like, clearly, you're safe in both of those spaces, but I mean, you were probably close to dying.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

When the bear came at me, I was a little nervous that day, I will say. All I was doing was playing some miniature golf, and yes, there was a bear on the miniature golf course, and it did come at me, and it did a hiss thing that they said is not healthy for my survival, but I I'm still here. You almost died. Do you know what that means? It means you didn't die. Yes. Well, that that's the truth. Um, listen, I think that we should uh go through our near-death experiences and welcome on our guests today uh for the pickup meeting. We welcome Dr. Beth Lesson, uh, Vice President of Student Affairs and Enrollment at California State University Long Beach. Um, Beth has been at Cal uh CSU Long Beach since 2020. She leads a division of more than 30 programs, serving a student body that's primarily first generation college students and Pell Eligible students. Um, one of the things she grew the division fundraising, this was this blown-away stat number, my goodness, from 750,000 to 8 million annually. Holy smokes! Um, she pioneered the embedded care design model for mental health support, which reimagines how campuses actually deliver care and which has received national attention for doing so. Welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

Hi, thanks for having me. Yes, first can we talk about dilly bars? Because I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Oh, so it's it's it's like it's it's a Dairy Queen specific product.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Like when I go to Dairy Queen, I get a blizzard. I don't understand the dare the dilly bar business. So it's on a stick, it's like ice cream on a stick, and it's how do we even get to the dilly bar? Why would you not get a blizzard?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I mean, I do love a good blizzard, that's a fair assessment, Beth. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

I don't know that I could go to a Dairy Queen and get anything but a blizzard.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

I I love the banana split blizzard, it's my favorite blizzard.

SPEAKER_04 12:17

Oh, that's interesting. I haven't had that. It's a good recommendation.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

You know, the thing that I think I don't really even think of Dairy Queen when I think of Dilly Bar either anymore. I think of the the Mickey Mouse equivalent from Disney, which is essentially the the Mickey ears on a stick, like and it's the same thing, it's just in the shape of Mickey as opposed to a stick.

SPEAKER_04 12:36

Oh, okay. So that's what a dilly bar is. Yeah, but it's it's more like cylinder like. Because at Disney, because I live close to Disney, um, you have to do the dole whip.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

So I've never really oh, that's also a win.

SPEAKER_04 12:51

Hot tape. Yeah, yeah. So I'm not gonna do the dilly bar and the dole whip in the same day. That feels a little a little too far.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

What's your blizzard flavor?

SPEAKER_04 13:02

I you know it's usually it's usually Butterfinger. Oh I'm usually a Butterfinger blizzard, but sometimes I'll be uh Reese's blizzard.

SPEAKER_00 13:12

That that would probably be those would probably be my next two. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I was really curious about that answer and how much you were going to be real or just pick on Brody and name it a fish topic, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:22

Like salmon blizzard is your favorite.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

I I have a son who won't eat fish, so I I don't understand you people, but that's okay. I'm also I'm also, by the way, a dip over sauce person. I prefer dip over sauce because I too, Kevin, have control issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

I was waiting for you to analyze that for me.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

I have control issues, yeah, yes, and also um I'm a Skittles girl. No nerd clusters for me. Skittles.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

I mean, the the good news is Skittles are equally poisonous.

SPEAKER_04 13:57

That's right. That's right. They're killing me just as quickly as nerd clusters.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

They are and delicious with every bite.

SPEAKER_04 14:04

So I feel like I've now hit oh wait, and um Beecher City. Equal. Yes, we go with equal. I like both. There's a time and a place. And Kevin, I don't understand how you could be anything but psyched that you got that close to a manatee.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_04 14:20

I would be so psyched.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

I know that's what people tell me. I just I lived and I told. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

There you go. Fair enough. They apparently don't cover everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

We're not gonna bite you, but they will grab your leg if you're in the way, and then they drag you for a while, which underwater seems like a negative to me. It probably is a negative, Kevin.

SPEAKER_04 14:41

I really like to snorkel, so that's what I like about the beach. I like to see the animals, like I specifically like the thing that freaks you out.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Yes, yeah, it just feels like the story that would occur for me, right? Like where people will say, Well, how did Kevin die? Well, in a shocking turn of event, you know how manatee are super peaceful and the cows of the ocean? Uh that guy killed him, right? Like, that's what it feels like it could be.

SPEAKER_04 15:05

I'm learning a lot about you today. Thank you. Yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

So Beth doesn't understand me and knows that you have control issues. So we're, I mean, I think we're done here. Like we've had therapy, right? We've got a psychologist here. She's she's taking care of us now. All of our issues have been identified. No problem. And uh covered. Yes, and I mean, she's kind of uh weighed in on kind of our useless banter, which I think is equally fun. That's right, we're done. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

I was feeling left out, so now I feel like I'm a part of things. Thanks. That's that's great.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Brody started us off, Kevin. You want to get you want to get into some questions? I mean, and actually talk about higher ed, that'd be kind of fun.

unknown 15:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Brody mentioned uh the psychologist aspect of this. You're a licensed psychologist, and I will say I I know I know a lot of student affairs folks. That's not a credential I see a lot of student affairs VPs are carrying around. How does that lens, the clinical training, the way a psychologist reads a room in a situation, show up and how you lead?

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Well, thank you. First, I want to correct the record. I am not currently licensed. Oh, okay, because I am not a practicing psychologist. My doctorate is in psychology and I'm eligible to be licensed, but I never got my license in the state of California. Um, so just for anyone who's watching who will call BS on that, I want to put that to bed real real quick. Um I am also a certified executive coach. And and that is um a current certification I hold, and that is work that I currently practice outside of my um full-time job with other institutions. Um, so to your question, I think that um my background in psychology has been the most valuable training I could possibly have gotten to lead in student affairs and in higher education in general. Um it's it really everything from how to communicate effectively with folks to you know how to de-escalate a crisis situation to um helping to foster a sense of buy-in and team dynamics, you know, just everything that I every time I turn around, I'm connecting with another situation that really draws upon that training. The only training that maybe um is almost as as useful as my psychology and my coaching training is the fact that I bartended for 12 years.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Really?

SPEAKER_04 17:42

It just kind of goes together. Um, you know, an orientation toward customer service and a tolerance for all sorts of behavior. And, you know, I was a therapist for five years before I went into higher education, and I worked in inpatient and outpatient psychiatric settings. So I worked in a psychiatric hospital with people who were um pretty who struggled with pretty severe issues. So coming into higher education, some of the crisis work that we do here that would rattle some other folks never rattled me because I was dealing with the some of the toughest cases out there for a long time in very um high pressure environments. So coming into higher ed felt um liberating in a lot of ways and you know, stimulating in in others. Um, what I love about higher education is that every single day is something different, and that variety is really good for my ADHD brain.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah. That's fair. I, you know, the thing I think about often, and you talked about how that that background really helps you in in the the work that you do. Part of the reason I left student affairs as the field as a standalone, I grew up in housing, Brody grew up in housing, was I became an expert because of certain situations that happened around me in student death and crisis. And so, like, I'm like, I gotta think that your field of study and just how to balance and how to handle those situations allows you to approach it in a healthier way than I probably did as a 23, 24-year-old professional and working in housing and residence life.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

I hope so. And I and I have to say, I probably approach it in a healthier way now than I did when I was a 25-year-old professional. Um, but one of the things that one of the one of the main benefits is that I all I knew from early on how to have difficult conversations with compassion, and I could sit in discomfort. Um, I had a lot of patience and tolerance for hanging in a discomfort in an uncomfortable space, and that has paid off in so many ways.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah, so many people really try to avoid discomfort, and a lot of a lot of bad stuff can come out of that. But if you can hang with that for a little bit, um that I find that to be incredibly useful.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Right. And if you bring compassion to the table as well, it just it just really I think is a good combination, right? Being able to have difficult conversations and being able to do that with compassion and care is is equally important. It's the best balance, right? It's the balance that has to happen. So for sure.

SPEAKER_04 20:36

You know, I had to I had to learn some of that compassion in the communication because I'm originally from New York City.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Oh yeah, I'm a good Midwesterner, I'm nice to everybody.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

I I let's just say early on, my communication was a little edgy. That's that's what we'll say. So I had to practice making sure that my communication was. I never had to practice being direct, but I did have to practice being more compassionate in delivery.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

That's awesome. I I think we're all learning all the time, right? So it's good to have the training and then be able to build that in. That relational piece and advising we talk about is it is a skill, right? It can be developed. And I think thinking about it from that perspective is really important. I want to switch most, I want to switch gears just briefly. I mean, it's not really a big switch, but you've been described as someone who maybe turns divisions around. I was thinking about your California experience, specifically Sacramento State, Long Beach. In both situations, you walked in maybe into a situation and built something that wasn't there. Uh what does the first 90 days look like when a person, when you're the person who's brought in to kind of change things? You know?

SPEAKER_04 21:51

That's a great question. In Sacramento, I I did a lot a fair amount of building. We built basic needs there, we built the behavioral intervention team. There. There was a lot of building there, not so much turning around, but building. And in California, in uh at Long Beach, the division that I walked into was struggling. They had had a rough experience prior to my arrival. And a lot of people were hurt, pained. There were trust, trust had been damaged. It was it was a tough time. And then we went right into COVID. Excuse me, I was offered the job and I accepted it in February 2020, but I started it June 2nd, 2020.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Oh my.

SPEAKER_04 22:40

So I I took it before COVID and I started it right as COVID started. Um so the the division that was already really struggling with some pain and some I had a predecessor who who left under some tough circumstances. Then we went right into an unprecedented pandemic. So it was a rough time. So what does the first 90 days look like in that kind of a situation when there's so much uh damage done and people are really struggling to trust? You listen, you do a lot of listening, you do a lot of getting to know people and really getting to know people in an authentic way. You have to care and you have to show that you care. You have to ask questions, not just about what's happened at the job, but also about who these people are. Who are you? Like, why do you why do you do this? Um, what matters to you? You know, I needed to know that this person will give 110%, but needs to leave at five o'clock on the dot because what matters most to him is that he coaches Little League. Yeah, that's important to know. Like I need to know that this other person has a real hard time getting in in the morning, but will stay until 10 o'clock at night if you need them to. Um, I need to know who's got kids and who's got dogs and whose parents are sick and who's you know going through a divorce. And you need to know these things. You need to know who the humans are. Um, so I spend the first 90 days just asking people questions and getting to know who they are and what matters to them and what they've been through and how that's impacted them and where they're hoping to go from here.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah, I was in a day-long transition session. We had some speakers in uh earlier this week on our campus, and one of the questions they asked was think about a recent transition. So I was thinking about my time at Illinois State and what made the biggest difference. And my department is pretty large. And I said to the person, right, we had some think pair share time. I said, meeting with every single person in my space individually was by far the best thing that I did when I started in my new role. And it gets at everything that you've just talked about humanity first, right? We have to know who our people are, what's good in their space, what needs development, like what how do they work, what's important to them. And the only way you can do that is to sit down and have a conversation. So I I love that you kind of approached that response in that way because it made a huge difference for me in my new space too.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

It was incredibly hard to do in the beginning of COVID.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Coming in as in COVID and no one is I'm getting to know everyone online this way. Um, it was incredibly hard to do. And also, this is a huge school. We have 42,000 students, and I have 900, I have over 900 people in my division. Wow. So there is no way I'm sitting down one-on-one with every single individual when there are 900 people in the division. Wow. Um, so I did like office open office hours and virtual lunches and like everything that I could think of just to connect with as many people in as meaningful a way as possible so that they could start to see who I am and start to believe that I'm someone who means what I say and they can trust me. And there's a level of impeccability that's required when you're already coming into a situation where people have had their trust abused. It's even you can't slip. You just can't slip. You have to be a 100% above reproach at all times, because if you slip, it's just going to make them think that you're another one, just another, just another person who's gonna do do harm. So there's a level of um impeccability that's intimidating in that kind of a situation.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Yeah. If Beth would have taken your approach, Brody, and met with everybody, she'd just now be finishing the 900.

SPEAKER_04 26:59

I just did.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Number 900 just left before I got in here. Kevin, how many do you have? Like, could you have you done any kind of like listening tour, something along those lines?

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Listening tours, yeah. I mean, the relational part of leadership is for sure how I like to operate too. So the first 90 days that Beth mentioned is pretty similar, you know, but I only have 100 or so. I mean 100, 110 that are in the division. And uh, but I spend a lot of time out of my office and in their space. Um, and and some of that's because of the the um leftover um ramifications of supervisors that never came to your office.

SPEAKER_03 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

And so I very much try to get out and about and see people in their space um because that seems to matter a lot. But yeah, I I did I did see my folks um because that relational approach is how I thrive and how we thrive as a team. Yeah, it's great.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

It does matter, it levels the playing field and it indicates some humility. Like you're not sitting up in an ivory tower summoning people all the time. You're you know, you're you're fine to be in their spaces and to um just be out and about. I think it matters.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, and every campus has this, as we've talked to guests, where they'll say, Oh, I'm in the admin building, I'm in this building. And on my campus, I'm in what's called Wingo Hall, but people refer to because the president's office is in this building where it's like, oh, it's wingo, and it's like I mean it's an office, and and I leave it, like I just happen to reside here sometimes, you know. And so I think there's that stigma that comes with it. So yeah, when you walk out and you go do that, there's some humanizing that occurs that wouldn't happen if you just waited for people to come to you as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:38

The other thing that I did, which is controversial, um, I never wear a suit. And there are people who don't like that, who think that really I never wear a suit. When you're at a certain level of administration, there's some expectation about like a dress code, but it was really, I was very intentional about being as accessible as possible. And I felt like a suit made me seem really stuffy and remote. Um, and I don't like them anyway, so that's great. Um, but I don't I don't wear suits. I think I have like, I think I might have two in my closet, and I only wear them under very certain circumstances. I don't wear them at work.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

I love that. COVID killed dressing up for me for sure. Yeah. I mean, since COVID, my my quest for clothes has been to find the perfect sweatpant, the perfect jogger. Like that's moving.

SPEAKER_04 29:35

I don't do that either, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I mean, I went to Catholic school, I wore a tie for like 13 straight years, and I'm like, oh, I'm done.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

That sounds like my version of hell. I would hate that so much.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

So you uh Beth, you you uh you work and serve a student body that's primarily first generation and Pell eligible, and that's not incidental to the work, right? It kind of defines what the work has to be. I've really uh spent a lot of time since uh 2009 in my career, kind of in the trio space, overseeing student sports services. How does that student population shape the decisions your your division makes every day?

SPEAKER_04 30:21

That's a great question. Thank you, Brody. My they're my heart. That's I've only ever worked, I've only ever worked at institutions like that. I've only ever worked in public HSI, minority serving, Pell eligible, first gen, um, super diverse, missions of access. Like that's that's my jam. That's my that's my lane. How does that color everything? I'll give you an example from the mental health work that we've done on our campus. 85 to 90 percent of mental health services on college campuses require students to go get help, like go somewhere, make an appointment, ask for help, yes, etc. Um, if you do that on a college campus that's dedicated to first diverse first generation students, you're not going to serve the students who need to, you're not gonna serve your students.

SPEAKER_00 31:20

That's accurate.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Yeah, because they're not a help-seeking population.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Nope.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

They're not a help-seeking population by design, and they're also, and if if and when it gets tough enough that they might consider seeking help, it's not gonna be from the school.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:37

It'll be from a friend or from a family member. They'll even go to clergy before they'll come to the school. So if you design services that require a student to step forward and ask for help, you're already dead in the water. You're already not serving your population.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

So it informs everything that we do, everything that we design is designed to go to the student, find the student before the student has to come find us. Because if they have to come find us, uh, we've already we've already lost most of them.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

That's fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 32:16

Yeah, well, it just is necessary. Like how they kick, you know.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yeah, I and I see that in action every day in trio, right? It's such a proactive space.

SPEAKER_04 32:25

That's right. Everything has to be proactive. Um, like the way Kevin was talking about, you can't wait for people to come to your office. Everything is pushed out into the community, everything is in collaboration. We we text students regularly, we physically go into the spaces where we know they congregate. We, you know, it's just all about going to them because these are these are communities that don't and that have very good reason historically not to trust institutions and authority figures. So their first their first uh thought when something goes wrong is not, you know, let me go find someone in charge. Sure. So we we need to really get out in front and and make sure that we um are constantly providing an offering before anyone has to ask.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

And that approach benefits all students too, right? Like that's the other, that's the other piece to that, right? Is we think, well, how do we serve diverse populations? And you you start to try to understand first gen folks or Hope Chicago students on my campus or SOAR or Noble students. And once you realize how to serve that population, you realize that's how we probably should be serving all students, right? And everyone benefits from that.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

Yeah, it's the old you know, stairs versus ramp thing. Yeah. If uh everyone can go up a ramp, but only some people can go upstairs. So if you have a choice, go with a ramp over the stairs. It's the same, same way that we design. It's a the principle of universal design, really trying to make sure that what we do um works for everybody. And the best way for it to work for everybody is it is for it to work for the people who face the most challenges.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yeah. Love that. You uh mentioned earlier the situational circumstance you started your job in. And so I I think that's in my head at this moment when your division was just named a 2026 most promising place to work in student affairs. That's culture recognition. That's not just program recognition. What did it take to build that culture, especially after what you walked into to start?

SPEAKER_04 34:41

And I want to say, just because I'm I I've got humility for myself, but I have no humility when it comes to my division. Yeah, this is the second time in three years that we've been designated to receive this designation.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Well done.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

Excuse me, I'm still getting over a cold, but yeah, I'm I'm really, really proud. What does it take? Gosh, you know, I'm a mom. I have two kids at home, and there's a there's a line that Adam Sandler says in the movie Blended, like it's a dumb movie, but he says this line about like, it should be boring how reliably you show up for your kids as a parent. It should be boring, like it needs to, they need to take for granted how reliable you are, and how and I feel that way about a division. It should be boring how supportive we are of our staff and our students. It should be like, you know, whatever, that's normal. So everything that, you know, when I got here, I needed to show people that they could trust me, which meant that I begged people to speak. I begged them to say things that were negative. Um, sometimes I even planted people to say things that are negative so people could see that I would receive that, and that this was not a punitive culture anymore, and that we could speak, um, soliciting input all the time, constantly, and really working to um working to train and give a lot of professional development to the people who are doing any kind of supervision, any kind of leadership. I have built an incredible team. My leadership team is could take on any leadership team in the land. Like they are notoriously high functioning, not just because they're in talented in their own right, which they are, but because they love each other, they work together extraordinarily well, they collaborate with one another. We're at a level where if one of us is in the room, we're all in the room. And that's unusual. I don't find many teams functioning at that level. And if you ask any of us, they'll all say the same thing. Like we just went for breakfast this morning, and every literally over breakfast, everyone was talking about how much how happy they are, how our team is incredible, how we everyone likes everybody else. And it's an it's a very diverse team. It's not like we're all alike, we are absolutely not in any way like each other, but we have developed a strong trust in one another and some really great communication. Um, and I think everything has flowed from there. Once I could get that team, and you know, the team that I inherited is not the same team that I have now. There are some people who are still here who were um on it to begin with, but some people needed to go on to other opportunities. Yeah. So but but we are we're at a place now where it's just the machine hums. Like they're they love each other, they work well together. Um, and and I think that really is the foundation that everything else comes comes from. Because when the team works well together, fewer things fall between the cracks, the middle managers get better support and better model role modeling and training, we have better succession planning, we're able to recruit at a higher level, not just students, but also staff. It's just when you can put that. I invested a lot in the leadership team and it's paid dividends. That the ROI is outstanding.

SPEAKER_00 38:31

Beth, you've hit at something that I talk about a lot in the advising community, right? The the this notion of happiness and meaning making in the workplace. And one of the things I think we forget about is the role that leaders play in that process, right? Helping our folks be the best versions of themselves and the responsibility that comes with that. And it's really about creating environments, right, where people can thrive. Everything that you just kind of talked about is really about a system level or an environment level thinking. I mean, everybody wants to feel like they can be successful in the work, but you have to create an environment where that actually can happen day to day. So good for you.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

That's pretty much what I do. I I create a great team, and then that's it. That's all I do. They do everything else.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:23

So if I can just get the team to where it needs to be, then I get to enjoy the fruits of that. Um they're the ones that they own the rest of the success. The team that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And I think it's really interesting because Beth, I I like just hearing you talk, I think your answer is probably similar to mine when people say, How do you get you or what do you do and how do you get your teams to function? And and it seems really crazy that the answer is just to give a damn about the people you work with.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

Yes. Like that's a great start. That's a great start. And I and I do, and we all do. Um, but we also spend a lot of time together, very intentionally. We spend a lot of time together and we don't shy away from hard conversations. Yeah. So, and we spent time early on learning how to have hard conversations with each other and building like accumulating enough capital and enough trust that if it went a little sideways, it wasn't gonna implode. If a conversation didn't work out great, we knew we could clean it up because we had the foundation underneath us. So it was really important to me that we are able to hold each other accountable and not just Pollyanna our way through, because that's not real.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

And I think, Bertie, I'm gonna jump back just a little bit, and there's so many questions we could ask because this is just an amazing conversation. But I think that when you work in student affairs, there's a label or expectation that ends up on student affairs folks. And most people think it's housing and it's programs, and you seem to think of it differently and approach that differently. How do you define what student affairs is and what it can and maybe should be on campuses as opposed to, well, we throw some events, you know, that I think happens on a lot of campuses.

SPEAKER_04 41:18

I mean, we're really and we're the glue that holds most of the campus together. Yeah. Um, faculty are incredible, but they're very they're solitary creatures. Like they work, they work in um they're not not everyone. You know, I don't want stones thrown at me by the faculty, but not everyone. But in a classroom, they own the classroom, they own the curriculum. They're not notorious for their high levels of collaboration, with some exception. Student affairs, we do everything. You know, we we're the ones that faculty come to when they've got a student they don't know what to do about. We're the ones that handle, you know, the the disruptions and the the campus protests, and we're the ones who you know do leadership training. And we, you know, we we're the people that folks come to when someone just when a student told them just disclosed that they've been living in their car or don't have enough food. I mean, we're really dealing in some on some campuses, often we're dealing with life and death circumstances. Counseling, I have doctors who are in student affairs. We have like x-ray machines and physicians. Um, we're we're now doing dental work. I mean, the kinds of things that we do in student affairs, it we're so far from that punching cookies mentality. Right. I mean, we've left that in the dust decades ago. I'm I am assessing whether a student is a risk for our campus. The liability issues that we manage alone should, you know, would keep would keep the novice awake at night. Like we're people who are dealing with 3 a.m. calls, you know, crisis calls from from dorms. And gosh, and now, you know, add enrollment to it. Right. We're determining who your students are. We're we're going and finding them and we're getting them to apply, and we're helping to make sure that the students who are sitting in in your classrooms are the ones that should be sitting in your classrooms, that you're that that are ready for you to teach them and that you want to be teaching. So I mean, I just can't think of a thing that we don't touch.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah. And so let's talk about let's unpack this a little bit more, right? If you're because you have a lot of experience, but if you're talking to someone early in a student affairs career right now, someone who's come in because they believe in the work, but you know, they're starting to feel the weight of it. Do you what do you say to those new professionals in this space, given how massive that definition is and and the importance of that role that you think student affairs plays? Well, first breathe.

SPEAKER_04 44:13

Breathe. It's not all happening today, so it's okay. Um, but you don't have to do every piece of it. Just learn how to do uh your piece of it really, really well. And and one of my favorite pieces of advice is prioritize curiosity over comfort. Just be curious. If there's something you haven't tried and you have the opportunity to try it, give it a shot. Learn something, learn that thing that someone else knows how to do that you don't know how to do. Get curious and be stimulated by these are incredible opportunities, and it is such a deep and profound honor to do the kind of work that we do. I just came before I we did this taping, I came from a walkthrough of our commencement stage. We got it all set up on campus and we start on Sunday, and I'm gonna do 15 commencement ceremonies. So I'm gonna be doing 14-hour days, five days in a week because we all beth.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

I've lived that life. Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Yeah, we've got so many students. But I, you know, I was standing on that stage thinking about how starting Sunday, every single one of those students is their lives are changed forever. Forever because of what they did here with us, and so many times, so many students would not get to that stage if it were not for the work that we do to keep them here and to support them and to make them feel welcomed and capable and safe. And what a profound honor it is to do the work that we do every day. So if it feels big, it's because it is big. Yeah, it's big for better and for worse. It's big in the sense that we've got a lot of responsibility, but it's also big that man, what an impact we get to make. And how could you ever like that to me is addictive?

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah, I have felt that in my life as an academic advisor and then as an advising administrator, helping advisors do what I think is life-changing work on the academic side. I mean, although, you know, when I started in academic advising at the University of Northern Iowa in 1995, we were in student affairs. Like and I have academic advising and student affairs in Sacramento State. Everything is student work, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:43

The work is for the student. It is.

SPEAKER_03 46:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

I have I have groundskeepers in student affairs because they're the groundskeepers who keep the the grounds around the dorms. I have plumbers in student affairs. Like I've had I I once had athletics in student affairs, and I had I had um the police in one on one campus was in student affairs. It really can be so many different things, but at the end of the day, what it is is serving students and making sure that they get everything they need to be who they want to be. And I'm I'm hooked. Like once I got into it, there was no way I was getting out.

SPEAKER_01 47:27

Brody mentioned, you know, guidance for the staff that you work with. You are either completing or it's darn close to you have a book coming out that touches on this topic. And so for our audience that's listening today, if they're thinking this this Beth Lesson knows what she's talking about, like let's go. Like, where can they pick up this book?

SPEAKER_04 47:48

When can they pick up this book? That's a great question. Thank you. Um, I've just been I've been doing this for a long time, you know. When when you get to year 25, 26, 27, I'm not gonna say any more in numbers. When you start getting to those years, um, you've you've seen some things. So it's it's those are good people to ask questions of. They've seen some stuff. Um, and so I do a lot of coaching. I do a lot of executive coaching and I work with teams on different campuses, um, and I do a lot of presenting. And every time I I coach or I present, for years people said, You should write a book. You should write a book. And I said, Oh, who wants to do that? That's such a pain in the neck. I don't want to write a book. Um, and then a girlfriend, my girlfriend Marsha said to me, How many book chapters? How many chapters have you contributed to other people's books? And I counted them up and I said, Oh, 10. And she said, So you've written a book, you just gave it away to 10 different people, and you don't have one. You gave yours away to 10 different people. Yeah. It's like, what's wrong with you? Write your own. And that was quite a wake-up call. So I I sat and I thought, what what book do I want to write first? Because now I'm hooked on that too, and and there'll be more. And I decided not everyone will be able, not everyone has the resources to access my coaching. And access is a big deal for me.

SPEAKER_01 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

So I'm putting as much of my coaching as I can into this book.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 49:25

So that anyone who wants to hear the kinds of things that I talk about with people I coach can just buy the book and read it. It's not the same kind of experience because you know, that one-on-one dynamic is part of the magic, but that requires resource, some additional resources, and a book is much more affordable. So this is really a career coaching book for anyone who wants to make higher education their life, their field, their career. Um, and you know, I cover a whole bunch of things that we've all stumbled over in our time. The politics of it, you know, how to manage up, how to negotiate, you know, the whole job search, the search process, the you know, the the first 90 days, the you know, fitting into a new campus and without losing yourself, adapt how to adapt without losing who you are authentically. Um and and it really is kind of a love letter to first generation professionals because we talk about first generation students, first generation students go on to become first generation professionals.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

And we talk about the hidden curriculum of college, but we don't really talk about the hidden curriculum of work.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:50

And a lot of student affairs professionals are first generation professionals, wondering what's going on in this meeting? Why isn't anyone saying the thing that we all know is true?

SPEAKER_03 51:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

Or, you know, what am I getting wrong? Why does I feel like I'm working so hard and my boss likes this guy so much better than me? What's happening? Why doesn't anyone recognize my contribution? You know, we've all stumbled through these things. Or, you know, I've got a boss who steals my ideas. What do I do? So, you know, I Are you writing that down, Kevin?

SPEAKER_01 51:27

What's the name of the book? I need to buy Brodean.

SPEAKER_04 51:33

Well, interestingly enough, I don't have a name yet. I haven't given it a title. So I do a lot of posting on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

All right.

SPEAKER_04 51:39

And one of the things I'm going to do, and it's great. I do. I post a lot on LinkedIn and I'm going to crowdsource a title for the book sometime over the summer. I'm going to put out four options and I'm just going to ask people, what should I name this?

SPEAKER_01 51:54

If you're thinking of a fifth option, I still think we can go with things Brody Brochier Should Do. And then we throw that out there to the audience and we go from there. Or I'm not giving this stuff away for free anymore.

SPEAKER_00 52:07

Like we do on our podcast, Kevin. Right. That's that's a good idea. We're not smart enough to monetize this, Kevin. We just look like goofballs on on YouTube. No, that's what you that's that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 52:19

That's how it starts. That's what I do on LinkedIn. I just give away as much as I can. And the other stuff is for people who just want more.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

It's one of the things. And a little bit outside of the office things, and some of this is not, right? Like you mentioned your LinkedIn, and and listen, uh, you within the last couple months, we've had some folks on that I, you know, I've said have been great LinkedIn follows. I don't know of anyone better than Beth, right? Like it is next level great. And you're doing great work in that space, Kevin.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Come on. You are, Kevin. You're doing great. I appreciate it. But I'm trying to keep up. I don't have the time or energy. I'm 10 years older than you are, Kevin. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 52:58

There was a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

There was a couple weeks ago. I'm writing a post in the morning. I'm I'm at my apartment, I'm at the table before I go to work, and I'm writing a post. And I'm like, I really like this, I like this idea. I go and I'm about to go to post, and I go to post, and all of a sudden I see Beth post, and I'm like, it's the same dang topic, right? Like I don't I it was like two weeks ago, and I'm just sitting there going, I know, but then I would have tagged you. It felt too interconnected. Uh I was like, I gotta save it. So I've saved it. Okay. Well, but you're good.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

Whatever happens, then I'll tag you, and we'll cross-pollinate.

SPEAKER_01 53:36

That's right, that's right. We'll cross-pollinate on that. But Beth, beyond like your LinkedIn stuff, you are a Long Beach City Commissioner, I believe. Yeah, you uh are a psychologist. We mentioned that executive coach, uh, author. Um, you have great kids. I do.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

I love can I also plug? I'm on the board for the National Endowment for Financial Education.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Yes, we were gonna ask about that.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Yeah, yeah. I want to plug Nefi because they're doing such spectacular work, and I think a lot of colleges are gonna start hearing more about that organization. In the past, a lot of their focus has been on K-12 and really advocating with different states to get to get states to legislate mandated uh financial education for um kids before they graduate high school, but their their focus is beginning to shift a little. They've had tremendous success in that area, and many, many states have legislated, uh mandated financial education, but they're so now they're starting to take a closer look at post-secondary. And I think a lot of colleges are going to hear more about them. I am beating the financial education drum for our students, especially, especially now with all of the changes that have happened with OB3 and loan caps and you know, changes in what can be um what which loans can be forgiven. So, really learning more about financial education from the youngest possible age, so that you have the best possible chance of creating financial wellness for you for yourself and for your family.

SPEAKER_01 55:15

I guess the the thing, even within that, right? Like your advocacy there, like even within topics of coaching and being a city commissioner and all that. One, like, when do you sleep? And and two, how do you do this balancing of these things and still excel in those roles?

SPEAKER_04 55:34

I'm not sure. I like the other answer. That's a good answer. That's my first answer. Well, first, one of the reasons I love education so much is because it's not a corporate office. I can bring my children. Like if I have a if I have something that I need to do on campus, like tonight we have a cultural graduation celebration.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:59

And my daughter's gonna come with me. I don't have to be away from my kids to do some of these things. So there isn't, it really does empower you to do a lot when you can bring your family along with you. Um, and I think that's great for the kids when they go to a cultural graduation ceremony and they hear those speakers and they see those performances. Um, I I would, I can't imagine anywhere else I'd rather than be. And they appreciate it. So I think it's great for everyone involved. So, first of all, I don't I don't really balance life so much as integrate it. Yeah. Um, and I've had tremendously, I have a tremendously supportive, I've had tremendously supportive presidents. My last president uh my for a long time was Jane Close Connolly, and then most recently um I had Andy Jones, and now I just got a new president on May 1st. So he's been with us for 15 whole days, Dr. Warren Blanchard, and all three of them understand the importance of our university's involvement in our local community and also in the national landscape. So they are very supportive of my participation in all of these different things, local and national, um, because they understand that all of that only makes the university stronger and better. So, with their support, without their support, I don't think that I would be able to do those kinds of things. Uh, for sure, I wouldn't be able to. As a matter of fact, I just handed my my new president a sheet of paper with all of my involvements and the time commitments that are attached and said to him, if you um I can explain the value of these involvements, but if there are any that you don't want me to participate in, they're gone. Because without my my boss's support, I can't do them.

SPEAKER_02 57:58

Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:59

Um, so as I've had tremendously supportive supervisors and presidents who have really understood the value of having that kind of involvement uh both nationally and locally. And it it is an extraordinary value for the university. Part of the reason I'm a commissioner for the Health and Long Beach Health and Human Services was because of COVID.

SPEAKER_02 58:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:22

Because we were in constant daily contact with our public health officer. Um, and as a result, I sit on the commission now. And there are other involvements that have evolved similarly, but I believe that our involvement benefits them, you know, having the university's involvement benefits them, but it also involved our involvement in those activities benefits the university. I would never have been able to bring dental services to our campus if I were if I hadn't been involved with health and human services. But because of that involvement, now our students have access to free dental care on our campus. So it it brings so much additional value to the campus and to our students that it's it makes sense. There's good ROI there. It makes sense to invest in that way.

SPEAKER_01 59:13

There's so many folks that are that listen to this that sit in places where they don't ask the question. And so I think your example of here are the things that I do, showing that to your supervisor, showing that to your boss. Brody and I, when we started this podcast, it was conversations with the people that we work for. Like this is kind of in our realm, but this is why it's rewarding for the university, this is why it's rewarding for the people that we work with, this is why it's rewarding for us, right? Like, and how it's going to serve in those ways. Like those conversations are so healthy to have. And I think sometimes people are afraid to have them and are afraid of what's going to be said to their supervisors, which is a different topic. Um, but like it just I think not being afraid to do those things and to embrace those things and the good that comes from it outside of you, but also as you as a professional can be incredibly rewarding and powerful.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:06

It can be super intimidating. And one of the real joys of being closer to the end of my career than I am to the beginning is that I'm not nearly as afraid of as many things as I used to be early on. Um I think early in my career, I would have been a lot more intimidated. And, you know, first I have more experience with having those conversations and seeing them go really well. And also, there's less to lose. Like I'm closer to the end of my career, so it's okay. Whatever happens is all right. But I've never had one of those conversations and have it go poorly, right? So I haven't either. I think I've never experienced anything negative from having one of those conversations because the worst thing that can happen is they say, I'd really rather you didn't. And I say, Okay. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah.

unknown 1:00:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

It's literally never failed me to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

So, Kevin, we probably should move to the lightning round, don't you think? Lightning rounds. Oh, I'm so excited.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:12

Lightning round.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:15

I got to go to the lightning round. I don't normally get to do that. I know. You don't, you you you went into it, and I was like, let's go, let's do it. Uh Beth, first job you ever had.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:26

I worked in a flea market. I was 13 years old, and it was under the table.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:31

Gosh, that sounds like the best job. I would love to work in a flea market. Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

Hidden talent that most sound babysitting. I mean, babysitting was probably first.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:40

Yeah, I yeah. Hidden talent that most people who know you professionally have no idea about.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:49

Um, I used to swing dance for many years, and I don't know if this is a talent, but I used to work for a two-liter open wheel auto racing team.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:01

That is awesome. Wow. My cat even likes it.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:08

I like your cat. Yeah. But that's not a that's not a talent. I didn't do the driving, but I did swing dance for many years.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:16

That's a talent. Incredible. Best piece of feedback you ever got that you didn't want to hear.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

Um, Carmelo Rodriguez told me that you need to stop holding everyone else to the same standard to which you hold yourself. They will constantly disappoint you and you will piss them off all the time. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:38

That's great guidance that you didn't want to hear.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

It has been invaluable. He was correct. I hold myself to a very high standard, and that's great, but not for everybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Uh whether it's chapter 11 or the full book, what's one idea that you've been building towards?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:59

This is gonna sound hokey, but uh we need to spend more time together, and we need to uh slow down and be kind to one another. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:11

Yeah, I don't think that would be a good idea.

unknown 1:03:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:15

Birdie and I are just talking over each other and saying the same things, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:19

The screens, man, the screens are tearing us apart, and we need to get together way more, be together, talk to each other, listen, be stay curious, care, like stop fighting, just listen for a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

I have found that to be a generational divide for us in spaces here recently.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

It is. I think I think there's a lot of that, yeah. Touch grass, as the kids may say.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

Yeah, the young the youngs want to be on the screen for sure. They think it's a lot more valuable than getting together in person.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:52

As my daughter would say, touch grass.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:55

I your daughter's way cooler than any of I don't even know what that is.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:59

My 16-year-old, that's when you've been on screens for too long. Even the kids will just tell you to stop. Oh, I have to touch grass, touch grass, touch grass.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:08

I thought this was like something from the marijuana community. Touch grass, touch grass.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:13

We've talked about my hatred for grass. Maybe that's not the best option. I'm the weirdest person in the world.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

What we're recording on a Friday, the episode will release on a Wednesday. What does a great weekend look like right now? I know you mentioned you have commencement that starts on Sunday, so maybe this isn't a full one, but what's a great weekend look like?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:33

Yeah, this is a bad time to ask me because I'm just getting over a cold and I'm gonna have commencement. So right now, the best weekend looks like a lot of sleep and trash TV. Yeah. But um, but a great weekend normally would be spent. I want to be able to sleep in, wake up whenever I when my whenever my body wakes up, have a hot beverage in a leisurely way, hang out with my kids, doing something that makes them nice to each other and makes us all laugh.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:06

What's the trash TV you're gonna watch? I need to know this. Oh my gosh. So I I love trash TV, but I don't love anything angsty because the world is too angsty. So I pretty much will only watch like comedies.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:24

Um or procedurals. Like I'll watch a procedural sometimes. So like I we finished, we we were watching Lincoln Lawyer. That even got a little angsty for me. Um Bridgerton. I just finished Bridgerton and Queen Charlotte. Um, they were great, they were perfect. Um, I'm watching the dumbest, literal dumbest sitcom on the planet called Suburgatory right now. Dumbest thing I've ever seen, and I love it. Um it's great. We were watching Blind Spot, that got a little angsty for me. Um that got a little

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

angsty but i'm still i haven't i haven't given up on it yet um what other trash tv i just list for somebody that has no time i'm amazed no i watch one television show a night once that's it one television show a night i i zipped through all of veronica mars recently fun um that was fun i'd never seen it before like i missed that whole thing uh i missed all of gossip girl so i just did all of gossip girl um so i watch one television show a night but i catch up on planes oh i download from netflix and i watch on planes yeah we should talk about our plane habits that could be a top three at some point in time we gotta get oh my god i have very very intricate playing habits yeah ooh this has to be a topic yeah invite me back for plane habits because we have very strong opinions for that well Beth after we say farewell and and given that you you said you're just you're overcoming being sick our top three for today is just kind of randomly things you do when you're sick top three things what is something that you do when you're sick as we wrap up today well what I normally do is um pop Zycam like it's my job and I drink a ton of liquid Zycam is I will you said that like um the other the candy company is not going to be your sponsor maybe Zycam can be your sponsor we can work on that kind of I send him something I pop Zycam and vitamin C like crazy um and it have a lot of um liquids and soups and whatever um but I have to be honest part of the reason I'm still sick this time I didn't do any of that instead I loaded up on over the counter medication and went out dancing and that's why I'm still sick.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:50

There is a thing called Early Birds Cafe and it's it's early birds cafe I think it's called yes and it's for middle aged women and they they say I'm gonna not swear their tagline is uh the dance party for women with bleep to do in the morning so they do it and they do it all over the country. They do it all over the country and so they it only comes to town every few months and it is you can find it everywhere but it goes from 6 p.m to 10 p.m so you you can go out and have like a nostalgic clubbing experience and get to bed on time and feel good in the morning. Yeah and it happened while I was sick and there was no way I was missing it so I loaded up on over the counter drugs and went out with my friends anyway and now I'm still sick.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:45

Yeah maybe Kevin we could get baseball major league baseball to start the games at five o'clock every night our team same difference yeah well just like the dancing this is an episode that we're glad you didn't miss and thank you so much for being a part of it. Um Beth you've been great and so thank you again for joining us on the pickup meeting. This has been super fun thanks for having me it was great to meet you same wow so fun gosh dang that was so amazing like I just I had such a good time and this is one of these things where we didn't talk about like how we how we know each other because this is maybe one of our first two or three guests that I only know in the social realm of things like I saw a post by Beth on LinkedIn and reached out blown away and reached out and she was like yeah let's do this and and how kind of her to spend some time with us but I think we gained from that that was that was fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

Yeah it's wonderful to build new networks right we're we're we're kind of writing a paper about like the conference folks that we meet and we've put in a session proposal that got accepted to kind of talk about this it doesn't matter how old you are building those networks really matters. There's so much we can learn from each other and if we're intentional about that it's it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

She was great she was great and Brody you know what I'm getting you for your birthday yeah I got it yeah it is so listen um record like just be boring yeah I'm not gonna get you a record you're getting bet's book let's go um we've been we the topic today for our top three might seem really random but it's not because every time I've been picking up the phone to call Brody lately it's been like uh my sciatica and my back and like and then he's coughing up his lung like I feel like he's been sick for like weeks as we've tried to get through things and so it is the top three things that you do when you're sick that are unique to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:49

I don't know if they're unique to but you think they are they're your things well I'm I'm terrible at being sick that's the first thing like and and I I I don't ever really like as a kid I think I missed one day of school one day of high school right like I just didn't miss and at work I was never very good at sick leave I'm getting a lot better at sick leave that's for sure like I'm I'm now taking time so when I'm sick now that I'm 55 years old like I'm not dumb anymore and I go home because you can't be productive at work if you're sick. So that's one thing I think top three is I'm using sick time now when I'm sick. Like that's smart. Like go home. Don't fight through that like there's no reason to do it. Like Beth I I just throw as many drugs at the problem as I can I don't know that that's unique to me but you know my wife tries to battle through right she says well the fever's designed to stop all of this and I'm like give me more Tylenol give me more ibuprofen wait is this your cat impersonation that you're doing we got she's gonna be listening to this episode and she's like why do I sound like that no it's not my impersonation but she tries to fight through and I'm like all that does is mask the symptoms I'm like yeah but the symptoms are terrible like I want the symptoms to go away so I'm gonna take medicine until the the stuff takes care of itself so that's the second thing I don't know if I've got a third thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

All right well I'm jumping in fevers kill me that so that's the other thing I just go straight to bed like and it doesn't have to be a big fever like once a fever hits me it's over I I I think I probably do some of the things you do I would say the things that stand out to me as far as sick is it was when I'm sick it's going to be trash TV time like I'm gonna find a binge on Netflix or in one of the stations I'm gonna we I'm gonna watch it all right like I think that's how I cobra Kai right like I watched Cobra Kai and I was like why am I watching this I loved Karate Kid but then I watched Cobra Kai and I think it was while I was sick. Um sprite has to be something that I'm having it doesn't matter if I have a sore throat or not right like sore throat would help but like Sprite was this go-to of things.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:10

Yeah I keep Sprite Zero at home for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:13

Yeah not necessarily for that reason but yes that's great and then I would say something that became semi new I this vaccines all the the preventative things I could do I got COVID more times than I wish I did. And that was terrible but one of the things I got from that is not just laying there all the time. So I would get up and go walk and I'd get up and you do things in the yard not like hard things but just walk around and do something with the dog. And so now like when I'm sick as much as I don't want to I will do something to keep me moving. I I have been sick and kept my 10,000 step streak and that's not easy but it was I did that too. Yeah it was it was what I needed to do mentally and maybe not physically but it did help I think in the long term well that was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

Yeah there we go I mean we've talked about my mom my mom used to take care of me like when you had those upset stomachs I'd get a soft boiled egg on a dry piece of toast and you know the Sprite the crackers like the saltines love it. This is a callback to a previous episode and I got a message from a friend the other day that they said they said is Brody at his house so his mom takes care of him while he's sick and I'm like exactly he's 55 and mom is still taking care of him oh I don't I don't even know where to go from that I think you're I think you love me so much that the teasing is just nonstop. That's what I was going to say. It is but why don't you send us home today yeah that's it for this edition of the pickup meeting we hope all your meetings formal or pickup style are as fun and as meaningful as this one until the next time gang let's just do good and be nice okay