Ep. 30 - Emily Jones, Illinois State University

From Record Store Day lines to baseball nostalgia to teaching that truly transforms, this episode of The Pickup Meeting has a little bit of everything. Kevin and Brody welcome Dr. Emily Jones of Illinois State University for a lively conversation about student learning, faculty growth, leadership, teamwork, and what it really means to help students feel seen. Along the way, they swap stories about college athletics, indoor plants, travel, and the kind of teaching that leaves a lasting mark. Add in Cardinals talk, stadium food rankings, and a lightning round, and you’ve got an fun filled episode!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

And away we go. Welcome back to the pickup meeting. Today's agenda is shorter than my attention span, so let's move fast. How you doing, Brody?

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Good. I liked that one.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Yeah, you need you never know where it's gonna go. And I I got a lot of comments about the our last episode drop and that one. And so now I feel a lot of pressure to be really, really smart and witty with this.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Yeah, I do the same outro every time, and so you get to have the fun.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Yeah. Creativity. That's the fun.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, it is. Absolutely. Hey, I'm excited. Record store day is tomorrow. That gives us kind of an idea of when we're recording. It's a Friday again. And I get to get up early and stand in line and buy some records.

SPEAKER_01 0:56

I do not understand this, right? You're gonna go buy records that you could buy today. Tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

I can't buy them today. They're not available until tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

They actually drop on record store day.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yes, that's accurate.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

So this is like your Christmas. It is kind of like my Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

And how long of a line will you wait in for this? So I'm going to a shorter line, I think. I have a guy that's in downtown Bloomington and he's got a smaller store.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

When you're saying you have a guy, this is the nice way of saying you have a dealer.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:35

Okay, just make it a same page.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Yeah. And so I'll probably try to get there 5 45, 6 o'clock. Store will open at 8 40. In the morning? In the morning, yeah. I I don't understand. I mean, you've had to have stood in line to do something fun. That's that's really the topic here. We got to get you involved. But you know, we we were talking about this yesterday. What's the longest you think you've stood in line or waited in line to do something fun or to get something?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Do you remember? I mean, you know, I'm a Disney adult, so which I don't understand. Right, because you're strange. But yes, so I mean, at least in that regard, I will wait in lines for things that are rides. And I can vaguely remember, and and stay with us, young folks, roadie. You you're gonna actually remember this. Um, when you used to have CDs that would be released at midnight or some time frame, and so I would drive from Sparta, Illinois to Fairview Heights, Illinois, because they had a Best Buy, and wait outside to get the records because Best Buy had them first, or the CDs because Best Buy had them first. So this is similar, I guess. And I will say when uh what was it, the Beatles two disc CDs that came out in like the mid-90s? Like, yeah, I was there, man. Like, I you were I was there, I needed to get those, right? Like, how how could I be a big part of a Beatles cover band without hearing these next cuts? Wow, Kevin. So you kind of had your own record store day, yeah. But then like I grew up and I stopped doing that. Now I go to Disney.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

You're not a very nice person. What a what kind of friend are you even? I don't know you anymore. I know. This is like your Christmas, and I'm kind of crushing it. Hey, you you know, I was thinking about this. I was talking to Catherine about this, and she's like, Brody, don't you remember 2015, the Women's World Cup? We were stuck 15 minutes outside of Canada because customs wasn't ready for all the Americans that were going to go to Winnipeg to watch the women's national team. And we sat in our car stopped for about three, four hours, 15 minutes from the Canadian border. It was a party. I mean, people were out kicking the soccer ball. I mean, we just had a blast. I've got a couple great pictures of uh me and Kat and the girls on the interstate in the middle of the road, waiting to get into Canada with all of these other Americans that were rooting for the U.S. women's national team. It was awesome, kind of fun. Yeah. Annoying because it's a 17-hour trip to get there, but which made it a 21-hour trip to get there, but still a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

I'm not a big line person in general, and I don't know anybody that is. No, I get it. I don't think people are like, oh, let me sign on for that. But you know, the last time I went to Disney, the long and this was right before Christmas two years ago. Yeah, I think that's right. The longest I waited in line for any ride was 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, I've been to Disney two or three times in my adult life now, and I don't remember waiting in line all that long to get to the rides.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

No, and the next closest thing to me is like sporting venues just to get in or out of a stadium. I can remember lines for that, and so there's some anxiousness of just getting into like I remember when Rams were in the playoffs, this is like 20 years ago, um, when St. Louis had a football team, like going into those games, and we would line up outside and be waiting for so long just to get into the playoff game. And and I remember that being something, but I'm not a big line person, and and to that extent, like when I'm at a reception and then they're like, Well, you can go line up and get in the buffet, I'm like, it's gonna be there at the end. I'll that thing out. Like, I don't even get in line for that. I get it, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

Yeah, you were talking about rides, and you know, my two places that I went to growing up in the 80s, before you could remember, is like when King's Island uh had the Beast, which was the newest, biggest, fastest wooden roller coaster at the time. I think we waited an hour in line to get onto that ride, and it was totally worth it, and it still exists, and the and all the rides at Holiday World, right? The three big wooden roller coasters that are pretty world famous that folks come across the world to get to. I've waited in pretty long line to get onto the voyage, which I think is the best of the three, and probably one of the longest wooden roller coaster rides.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

But are there things that when you're waiting in line that you do? And I will say for uh our audience today, Brody and I have a little script that we use, and I'm just now seeing that Brody had the topic of record store day, and then I was only supposed to chime in with witty reply. Yeah, you were pretty good, I guess. Listen, I know my role, I didn't even need to see your script. No, that I just needed to be witty.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

No, I mean, I think people are just generally excited about the ride, or sometimes you're sitting next to somebody who's never ridden the ride and you're like, it's gonna be awesome. And sometimes if it's a little kid that's scared, I try to get him amped up, like, hey, this is gonna be great, dude. Look how many people are in line.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

They all come out off this ride okay, like it's gonna be all right. So you're the guy from the progressive commercials that's like being the dad, and like the other people, your your wife is like, not your kid. Stop it.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Yes, that's okay. Making sure. Please stop talking. Let's just stand in line in silence.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Now, have you done like because you've seen this where you go and you like download the app and you play the little games in the line? Do you know what I mean? I don't do any of that. None of that, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

No, none of that. All right, hey, let's do something else. I mean, it is April, and we haven't really talked about baseball season. It is baseball season, and I've watched games. Yeah, me too. Two of them. And and the Cardinals don't suck yet.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

No, they don't suck. So are we happy about how things are going? I think so. And they're kind of a fun team. Our our collective friend Maggie Jane from uh Texas Tech sent me a message the other day and said, Hey, we're not terrible right now. No, that's a win. I'll take that. I thought, you know, going into the season, baseball season, Brody and I both live and die with the St. Louis Cardinals. If you're picking a different option, you're picking the wrong one. Um, although, Matt, I will say, uh, Matt, our producer is online today with us, Matt, I have been following these finishes for the San Diego Padres, and that is hard to root against. Like, that's been a fun, fun little existence for the last few weeks, and as they're playing good ball. So I've been paying enough attention, and the Cardinals have been playing well, and that is making April feel a little bit better. Yeah, I totally agree. Now, this will release right before May, and by then, probably dumpster fire. We'll hope not, but it could be bad by that point.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And I know we're on a podcast, but it we we we do need to start planning a trip to get to see the Cardinals together this summer. That needs to happen. Oh, for sure that has to happen.

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Yeah, so we gotta whether that's in St. Louis or somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah, we gotta get our calendars going there.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. You're right. Note for self. Let's get scheduled. We don't see each other enough, except for right here. Right. We see each other all the time online, but then that's about it. And in between there, and this has gotten out of control here recently. Brody has decided that it is send Kevin every baseball video in teams on Facebook or wherever. YouTube YouTube that also gets to the fact that Willie McGee was the greatest, that current announcers are garbage, and the old announcers are fantastic. And what else am I missing? Oh, Albert Poohs was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

And I uh you're never gonna believe this. This morning I watched nine minutes and 51 seconds of Ozzie Smith defensive highlights, and I almost sent it to you, but I decided not to because I've sent you so much already.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

You think I have nine minutes and 51 seconds to spend with Ozzie? The greatest defensive shortstop of all time? Yeah, you do. And if we're being fair, a lot of Cardinals, and then every once in a while, something Indiana-based. That's what comes to. And for our audience, in case you didn't know, Indiana won the national championship in football.

unknown 10:20

Damn it.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

You said it before I did. You're welcome. They don't want to hear from you anymore. Like they've had enough. Maybe. I haven't. No, you're still living the dream, and you get to, but you also don't get to complain about Indiana sports for 10 years. That's the rule. It is the rule. I agree. You will be 65 the next time you can complain about Indiana Sports.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

I mean, I think YouTube exists for just that reason to go back and watch those highlights and get tears in your eyes about them winning. I've done that with the 2011 World Series here recently, because what are we now? 15 years and we haven't won a World Series. So you just have to kind of live in the past sometimes. And we can complain because they haven't won in a long time.

unknown 11:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Speaking of the past, maybe it's time to bring on our guest. I'm trying to figure out how that was a transition that worked, but we're gonna go with it. I mean, it works great. Okay, we're excited to welcome Dr. Emily Jones, award-winning faculty member in kinesiology and recreation at Illinois State University, interim director of the Center for Integrated Professional Development, and someone whose work sits right at the intersection of teaching, learning design, and institutional innovation. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Wow, wow. That is that is one of the best intros. Thank you, Brody.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

That is a lot on a business card. We were looking at your profile.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

So many awards, Emily.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Oh, well, I mean, it's the work. When you do the work um well, I guess, or you love doing the work that you're doing. It's nice to be recognized, but frankly, I haven't looked back to that list for a long time, Brody. So um yeah, it's there, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I think we have to deal with the elephant in the room, and that was I knew you a long time before the awards, the leadership roles, all this work that you've done here at Illinois State University. You were a freshman college athlete at the University of Northern Iowa in the year 2000 on the first University of Northern Iowa women's soccer team. My wife was the first full-time assistant of that team. I actually trained you a couple times because I was a goalkeeper. And so it's pretty amazing to see the evolution from you being a freshman women's soccer team goalkeeper to what you're doing right now. Do you remember those days fondly?

SPEAKER_03 12:51

I do. And to be honest, Brody, I had no business walking on to that collegiate sport team.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Um, I don't believe that.

SPEAKER_03 13:00

I, you know, it's it's kind of funny because when you th when you kind of go back to the Wayback Machine, um, I've always been interested in sport and have been an athlete, but my my sport um really growing up was softball, which is wild. Um, but I kind of got into um soccer late in the game. But being from Iowa, soccer kind of came on the scene a little bit later compared to some other um pretty mainstream sport. And so in my high school years, um they started a girls' soccer team when I was a junior, and it and it overlapped with my softball season. And I tried so hard to let that athletic director of me let me play both sport. And uh they said, no, you have to choose.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Oh, that's so terrible.

SPEAKER_03 13:47

I had to choose. So I chose um softball because I had been pretty successful and had some really great teammates and great coaches. Um, but then on the side, played soccer with friends and kind of in a um very leisure way and enjoyed it so much. When I caught wind that Northern Iowa was starting a women's soccer team, I thought, what the heck? I had already committed to the school as a student.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

Um, and so uh I attempted to walk on. And um I had only goal kept uh in my like rec leagues, but it was like fierce, right? Like you just go out there fearless, and um, and so I had a a wild hair to think that perhaps uh Panther soccer might uh uh take a chance on me, and they did.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah. And you did that for a year, and and then you you actually tried softball too, is that right?

SPEAKER_03 14:39

That's right, yeah. They there was a coaching change. Um, and my heart had already I'd always been in in that sport. And so when there was a coaching change at Northern Iowa for the for the women's softball team, um and I should, I I I again I tried out and and uh was was brought on the team for for women's softball my sophomore year, but I should say the goalkeeping team um for women's soccer at Northern Iowa was outstanding. And they had recruited a really, really outstanding um goalkeeper from Canada, Anne Marie Whitco. And I trained together that one year, not only with you, Brody, but um Katerina Cacciani, and she I learned so much um by watching and supporting. And I was a really strong uh practice keeper. I'm okay with that. I learned so much. Um, and uh got to be part of a a really special um first-year team, um, and then uh played softball my second year, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

So let's talk about just we can move away from athletics, but I I want to talk about being a part of a team. Like I was a kind of a big team sport player too, right? And being a part of that team at that stage of life maybe shapes how we think about effort, feedback, growth. What lessons did you learn from those college years on or off the field that still influence how you approach work now?

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Oh, that's a great question. I don't know that I've thought about it like that in such a manner, but um, I think it kind of ties back to that thing I just mentioned, which was I really felt like I had no business being there. Um I had so much to learn. And I I positioned myself, I think, as a in a position where I could learn and absorb as much as I could. And and I I was just in awe of of what dynamic, not only skills, but personalities, uh the teammates and team members that I had the privilege to um be on that team with. Um and I I just found it to be incredibly humbling and um was excited to contribute in ways that made sense. And so being able to look up to and see the strengths of the people around you kind of rises you up to, and and you have to take a minute to then recognize where you can contribute. And I think that plays in a couple of different times and points in my life and and also now is really looking at group dynamics and leaning into people's strengths. Um, that team experience for in athletics also gave me the perspective that you know they would recruited folks from all across the country and internationally. And I was a local. Um was only about 20 minutes away. And so, what about broadening one's perspective and seeing that people looked at, you know, my home and my home state in the way that they did as from outsiders, um, but also broadening my perspective to that, you know, this isn't the only way to do things. And and perhaps, perhaps, even though I had an opportunity to do international student teaching and I had done some international travel, it's like what a neat way to broaden your perspective um by being on a team.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

It's awesome. You know, I it hits me here that this is the first guest we've ever had, Roadie, where I get to really reflect on this question. And I it may not be a question, I it may just be a statement. Emily, you're our first guest that remembers when Brody had hair. I didn't have hair then. You didn't even then. Okay, it was gone. All right, so no, we're still we're still in search for it. I I just man, this is one of these time frames that maybe it was at that moment that Brody had hair. He didn't. Okay, so that that now I'm gonna get to a real question now that I've taken a hair shot from two bald guys. Um you know, you moved across a lot of roles and identities since your time uh as a student athlete in at Northern Iowa. Was there a moment you realized that you want your work to be about learning and impact and not just participation um but transformation and what in what you're really doing in your role?

SPEAKER_03 18:53

Yeah. So there's that's a wonderfully big question, Kevin. I'll kind of can I refer to myself as a learner again and then kind of try that forward?

SPEAKER_02 19:05

It's awesome. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Um so I had the opportunity to be a part of um a school, university, community partnership, again, still with Northern Iowa. Um, when I entered my master's program, um, Northern Iowa had an in and stepped forward into a partnership with a community school and a corporation that was focused on health, well-being, and fitness. And they created this kind of this um opportunity for graduate students to integrate fully into the community as school teachers. So I had been a licensed teacher, and um we were graduate students, and we were learning how to implement fitness technology into our physical education classroom setting. And the the unique part of it was that it was that technology, those polar heart rate monitors and the software tools that we were using was very much focused on helping the learners, K through 12, take more autonomy and agency for their well-being, right? So it wasn't just how could this tool help you understand what your body's doing when you're active and you're exercising, but then it broadened beyond that. And um the curriculum wasn't just about PE, but it was about how the community promotes wellness and well-being in the lives of young people. Um, it promotes how our healthcare system and our healthcare providers were influencing the families that lived in those small rural communities. Um, it was about how our nonprofits like our YMCAs and our boys and girls club provided opportunities to students and families to choose healthy active lifestyles. So it sort of shifted from as a learner, I started to see kind of this bigger ripple effect about how so much of what we do is systems work, right? How our environment shapes us, how people shape us, and uh, and really keeping a core focus on how those systems influence behavior, behavior change, and perception of self. So, so zoom ahead, right? As a faculty member who's working with learners who are in who are members of our campus community and who are impacted by so many layers, right? Whether that's housing, residential life, advising, core academic courses, um, expectations for social engagement, family and financial responsibilities. And yet I see them just in the classroom, not just, but you know, my point is. And sometimes we forget just how much if we if we don't look at it as a as a from the standpoint of how comprehensive one's decisions and how they're influenced by so many factors, you can boil it down and think kind of too too narrowly. Um but if you uh that you know not understanding what might be impacting that that young person in in their day-to-day work. So I guess it's that that's that systems perspective or kind of that ecological perspective of understanding that what we do at uh at each part of the student's experience can have really powerful impact, positive and negative.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

I want to keep talking about teaching, Emily, because I mean I'm not I I don't I know you're gonna be humble about this and I think that's a great skill to have certainly but you've won teaching awards almost everywhere you've been right and so when you when you think about your teaching what do you believe students actually feel when it's working well right like when you've done a great job as a faculty member how are students receiving that I hope they feel seen.

SPEAKER_03 22:52

I hope they feel seen and they feel um that the decisions and choices that I have made have been um thoughtfully considered with them in mind. And in doing so when I when I engage with students and we um position um what types of learning experiences or expectations we have I work really hard uh to communicate with them the kind of behind the curtain information. That's right the um you know the reason we're doing this particular activity or the reason why um these learning experiences are so essential why make such a a deal out of them is because we really not only might this prepare you for your next class but also it's it's designing um it's designed to help you be successful in the workforce right or when you're working with schools and communities and kids because my my discipline is really in in physical education and health education and that's a pretty dynamic um space in schools and in our society um but I want them to see that you know I recognize that or or please understand you know these are the reasons I'm doing uh and have these levels of expectation for you um but if something comes up please come see me yeah talk to me um because I I understand that life happens and in in the event that you need some extra time in the event that you need some extra supports in the event that the way that I've explained something or the way that like your strength uh could translate into a different way to submit this assignment let's talk about it because I would love to hear um I'd love to hear that because it's probably something I hadn't thought of um I hope I hope that the time that they spend in classes they feel um that it's not just about the content but it's about the relationships that they're building with their colleagues their peers um their relationship that they're having with the the field is this right for me you know um and if not let's get you somewhere where it makes sense for you that community building is so important.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

I know we talk a lot about that in our first year experience courses but in every discipline that matters too it seems that that's such a great way to kind of think about the way that we interact with students from a coursework perspective no doubt.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

And we started that off with a sentence that I feel like for folks in your position or for teachers and faculty that are excellent at this you start off with when I engage with students which isn't always the case in the classroom and feels like the low-hanging fruit but that's part of it too that you know you're you're engaging in that process and engaging and learning and you care about all of the things that you said after that within your answer but that engagement is something different than some folks that just say yeah I go in and I just talk that's different. And and so I think that's a big part of that process too. Teaching excellence is often an invisible labor and and I think that this is whether it's on campuses or in our political structures or wherever where they think you know what they learn what they need to do and then they just come teach the course and then that's it. And so what are some intentional choices that you make before a course even starts that set the conditions for meaningful learning and I guess maybe there's a flip side of that of like you teach future teachers and you you know you try to ensure that there's a better experience having in classroom are there things that you wish first year educators or early teachers did um that would have that impact on students right yeah um so I think there's always uh uh you know in designing courses and learning experiences there's there's always the really healthy question of like why why are we doing this and we also have to ask that of ourselves as as instructors and and faculty members is you know does this still is this still fit for purpose?

SPEAKER_03 27:13

You know the syllabus that I that I acquired when I came into Illinois state to teach a uh a particular course and the learning outcomes that are listed are these really but still relevant for what learners need to know when they're going out into schools today you know why are we doing this? And it's not it can be come across very much condescending and genuinely my heart is never in that space. It's always it's always you know we have a very finite amount of time with learners how can we make the most of it um how can we make sure that our learning outcomes line up with the types of experiences that they're having in the classroom type of ways that they're engaging with one another they're engaging with the content they're engaging with the classroom and spaces and kids um and and then kind of building building that forward you know I had the really great opportunity to work in the state of West Virginia and got to connect with community schools and folks in very rural Appalachian areas. And that was one of the the the uh key moments defining moments in in my career where I realized that I have to adapt the way that I think the way that I see children and their families and their communities to be more culturally relevant to to meet the learners where they are and prepare my students for the schools and the communities in which they're going to be they're going to be teaching and having an impact so so in addition to the content to make sure that they're ready to get out in front of a group of learners the other piece Kevin I think that that answers your question is how are you seeing your students? How do you how do you do you know your community do you know your students and how can you tailor and adjust your messaging to reach them where they are and I try to do that with uh every fresh group of students that that I get to interact with that that I have opportunity to uh to build relationships within my classes is this class isn't going to be the same as last year, right? And so you know I think that I think that kind of helps anchor me in the in in really kind of why we're doing what we're doing and for whom we're doing the work that we're doing. And that means that I have to change and and constantly be willing to say I'm not sure but let me try try to find that out and uh let's change what we're doing to better to better look forward rather than just do what we've done.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah I think the challenge is you know physical education is really very personal right to every individual person. Like we all know that movement and exercise is valuable but culturally where that falls and uh community wise where that falls is very very different. I think that makes your job really hard to to be completely honest. I mean and we kind of I I think stereotypically we've poked fun at physical education but plays such an important role right for people to be able to be productive in their lives post K-12, right? Is movement and exercise are really valuable how do you kind of deal with that stereotype as a faculty member right let's kind of add on to that question.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

Yeah absolutely I mean I think we really dive into students' backgrounds um from the beginning right to kind of um interrogate or have them interrogate their their perceptions of what physical education physical educators are what they do and its role in space you know I think there's uh we do we do see that that it's a bit of a challenge to um break a mold right because break a mold from what is kind of a in our field we call it roll the ball out PE right where we have physical educators um kind of being the ones that um are are tarnishing the image when they don't invest in in excellence in teaching and culturally responsive pedagogies and instead just do it the way that they saw it done or because they were perhaps maybe more skillful or or had an interest or affinity towards sport um then they kind of lean more towards like well I liked it so doesn't everyone else and and wow that's uh sometimes an eye opener because this the the learners who have gotten a chance and not just here at Illinois state but at other institutions as well when you ask them like what what drew you to this career what drew you to this profession it's their own um perception right they're like I had a such a great teacher coach I love sport and I want to instill that in the future generation and there's so that's really a beautiful thing however you teach the entire gamut of our student population. Right now you're kind of a public health professional right because you don't uh different from sport coaching who um work with perhaps a niche population our physical educators in our gymnasiums are working with children who um have special needs whether that's physical mental or emotional we have students who are highly skilled we have students who have significant self-image and body image issues or beyond we have children who uh are coming into our gymnasium who don't know where they're getting their next meal we see every child in the school because uh physical education or health or in health ed often music and art education we see the entire student population and we see them um Brody this gets a little bit at what you said physical education is for some very intimidating because it's very visual your person your physical body is on is it is is is on stage for everyone to see yeah if you can throw kick catch run skip or otherwise you can see everybody else in the environment say being successful or not successful and that's really vulnerable now if you're the kid or young person who's really good at it great but if you're not you're still on stage so that empathy that understanding for our um future teachers to say you were great you probably had a great experience and you loved going to PE you were the one who ran in there and you were the one that ran out and you were the one that was picked first but guess what there are other people who who didn't have that same experience and you get the opportunity to teach and help them feel connected welcomed seen um and you know what maybe you lean into some things that are less traditional maybe you know that some of your students because your community is skate parks maybe you bring in skateboarding into your PE curriculum not biking you know so uh I think I I think I perhaps got off track there a little bit but it makes a lot of sense what you've said made a lot of sense absolutely I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

And it's it's one of these things we have this conversation and and before we started a recording today Emily you were mentioning that you know that this is a little bit of a different environment because often we're talking about advising and student success. And I think about this from when I used to teach a training and development program for faculty advisors. And the very first question we would ask them is how are you advising and they said well my advisor at this institution taught me how to do this so now this is how I do it this way. It's the reason why instructional design learning design instructional technology training and development programs are so critical to what we do. So I think there's some overlap there that our audience is going to be interested in hearing because these programs in that development matter an immense amount.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Yeah and we're so shaped by our formative experiences right so in in the field that I work in a that's a theory that's often referred to and referenced to help understand this is occupational socialization theory in that much of which we experience in our formative years in our youth or adolescence what we observe we perceive as to be that's what that's what a doctor does that's what an advisor does that's what a teacher does that's what a police officer or law enforcement person does because of the glimpse in which you saw it as a as a young person. And then if you get into a training experience sometimes you're peeking behind the curtain going oh I did not realize and you know kind of interrogating those warrants or those beliefs in a at the start of one's training experience or otherwise it's kind of hard to it's hard to get away from what perhaps might be some not so bad not so good practices and and introduce evidence based and evidence informed practices, practice those, reinforce those but then once they get a job and they finish that training program, what type of environment are they going into? And occupational socialization kind of interrogates that as well is are they going back into a space that kind of washes out what they learned during their training or do they go into a space where they can innovate and move you know move beyond what they thought and implement some of those practices and so it's very fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Emily you've let's let's transition maybe a little bit you've stepped into some administrative leadership roles here the last couple of years right now you're serving as the interim director for the Center for Integrated Professional Development. What parts of your faculty identity were most important for you to carry into these roles that is that's great.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

So I I think that that recent the student really has been key and thinking critically about how is it that what we're doing not only influences the student but then also the instructors and the support staff that interact with with those learners that we have on campus. And I I mean as a teacher educator I very much believe that that teachers and and instructors have a high value role in that exchange but it's not just a one it's not just the instructor you can have really great instruction that hits flat or if it's not if it's not focused in on again that the learner and and what it is that those students need to be successful. And so I think bringing I think really trying to stay rooted in yes we want to support our instructors and we want to make sure that they have the resources expertise and knowledge and and confidence to to do the work really exceptionally well but keeping that that learner focused um is is is pretty essential.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Love that you know in the role that I sit in I think one of the most common questions I hear is about transition into varying aspects of career and you touched on a little bit there. But I'm curious as you've moved from um faculty into institutional leadership like what are the things that have caught you off guard that maybe you didn't know and and really we hear this a lot from folks that move from frontline roles to leadership and and just having to do things differently but I'm wondering if you've had those standout moments where you think aha I didn't know this and this is this is helpful for how I'm going to move forward in my career.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Right. So I I I think my the the link back to systems thinking is probably the best tie in there for me is I think we kind of create a lot of roadblocks sometimes for um unnecessarily so because it's the way it's been done and we don't and we haven't maybe thought about is this still the way that we should be doing business and and and in higher education sometimes business that terminology feels funny for some folks but should we is this most efficient and effective are we are we positioning a process to be a priority over then the over the people who it's impacting and so I think some of this the small changes I I have had the opportunity in to be able to kind of zoom out and look at things more holistically and go, oh you know what um we we're not as responsive as we should be because why when a student makes a request or when a faculty member says we need this or department chair or unit leader says our faculty are struggling with this topic. What types of supports do we have can we implement a session a training session a series that would address this issue we have to go are we responsive enough? I mean can we move quickly enough to address that need or does it take six months to plan it and and that six months to plan it is sometimes that amount of time is needed and other times it's no we need to be more nimble.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

We need to be responsive to our community and understand the community in a in a manner and I'm saying campus community students faculty staff and so forth um to because CIPD is a service unit and so um how can our processes really be refined and interrogated again using that word to real thoughtfully to say we need we need to evolve a bit and we can you're really talking about we were going to ask this question but you've really answered it like we're really talking about how to navigate between innovation and tradition right in higher education like that that tension that exists between this is the way we've always done it versus how do we meet the needs of the student right now. I think that point is well taken in your response no question.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

One other element to it that is that I have found and maybe perhaps this is the researcher in me is um I really do like to look at data. Yeah I really like and I it's been um really fascinating to me sometimes like that transition is as a faculty member I can look at my course level data or the data that's influencing me, my students who are within the program and how they're matriculating through and persisting through a program for instance but being able to look more broadly at um the data and the tools that we have available to make some informed decisions about those you know tweaks or adjustments that that might need to or can show us this is no longer an efficient process and and we need to work to find a way to remove this barrier and kind of help help students to to matriculate through perhaps another thing that helped was um as a as a faculty member I have the the ability to you know kind of pick research interests that align with things that excite me and at one point one of the areas which was out of necessity was declining numbers and enrollments within our programs. And sometimes self-proclaimed faculty members can kind of put our heads in the sands and the students who show up for us to teach is who we teach. And when physical education and health or and education enrollment numbers were kind of tanking there for uh a while we were wondering you know can will our program survive with the number of students and faculty that we have to serve and so recruitment and retention became an area of of research interest of mine. And it broadened my perspective while I was on faculty at West Virginia and then brought those same questions and and approaches here is faculty members really have a key critical role to play or can play in recruitment retaining and helping students be successful and persist but we can't do it ourselves. And so getting out of our hallways or our siloed disciplines and say oh you know what we've got admissions we've got a great admissions team oh we've got great we've got great recruiters who understand Needs of students. And we started to do some research on kind of understanding the students' journey, their decisions to pursue not only a career choice, but college choice, and took it from a kind of a systematic approach to exploring how students found out about the institution, what motivated them to pursue the particular career, what sorts of network influences contributed to those decisions. And then once they made that decision, how did they navigate through the somewhat some of the challenges of applying for, being admitted, transitioning to the institution, going through the gen ed uh, you know, requirements, um, and then finally making it to, you know, as a junior, um, or after 70 credit hours or something, um, into their their major. Um, and so trying to understand that journey that students uh were on and and what we could do to get out of their way.

SPEAKER_01 45:06

It's great. I learned this of you, right? Because we just met today. Um, and you you may know this, but Brody is also an award winner. So I'm just I'm just surrounded by people that win awards today on the show. It's it's kind of a wonderful world to be a part of. I'm surrounded by excellence here. But I'm curious how recognition has shaped your sense of responsibility to students, colleagues, or your broader institution in what you do, because you kind of get a little, I don't know, like you get that spotlight. And so then I feel like there's got to be a little pressure. Brody's always talking about pressure about being amazing, and I'm like, man, just be you, you know, just be amazing, my man.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Well, I um I'll I'll take it back to kind of the team sport, right? The idea that, you know, teaching and recognitions for teaching um really is kind of a collective uh celebration. Uh it's a collective celebration that uh unfortunately um sometimes just gets bestowed onto a single person. Better case scenario gets bestowed on a team. Um because some of those rec that recognition for teaching excellence or otherwise wouldn't have been possible if I didn't have colleagues across the hall that I could say, I'm stuck.

unknown 46:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Or I'm thinking about trying this, but or would you share these ideas with me? Or I don't know anything about this. Um, and so the colleagues and and the and the folks that have um been a part of those awards, um I think that's kind of what's uh missing maybe from our from our awards and our recognition um for teaching specifically. Um and and you see it more and more in in research and scholarship where publications are of teams, right? And everyone plays a really critical role or needs to articulate their their attribution and how they how they contributed. I wish teaching awards uh or recognition awards um allowed um or kind of kind of recultured into that framing of how did you get here? And um, and who else, who else needs to be on this pedestal with you? Kind of looking back and saying, you know, pointing to the people who helped uh shape your thinking and and what it is you're able to do.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

I love that. Yeah, I mean, that's a way to stay grounded for sure, right? It's it's a good reminder that like when I talked about my award at the reception, the one thing I said is, look, this is about connection, right? It wasn't really about winning an award, it was about trying to be better in my job. And I do think that's such a great approach, Emily. And I I love the idea of the collective nature of that process, right? Which is really, really important. Um it speaks to you as a a professional and and as a continual learner, right? Like we do get stuck sometimes. How have you handled those kinds of spaces? Like, you know, if if we think about like maybe this is the last question before we move to fun, Kevin. But if you think about you know, getting stuck in the classroom, like what have you learned from those times when things didn't work, you know?

SPEAKER_03 48:25

Well, on the spot, in the spot getting stuck, I have found that it is the best to say, I've made a mistake. Or let's just take us take a moment and step back because we need to re we need to pivot. We need to we need to rethink what this is, right? So in the moment, in front of future teachers, um, full professor saying, Whoa, I've made a mistake, or I failed to do this, or I have failed this. Just like when kiddos, young people can experience an adult saying, I'm sorry, I made this mistake.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Um, I think it creates a like, it is okay to not have it all together.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:11

Um, and and yet I'm going to so I'm gonna take a minute and I'm gonna let's collect our thoughts. Where did we go wrong here? And then let's let's not just like throw the towel in and say, everybody go home. Let's try to figure this out. Like where where can we where can we walk this forward together, right? Um, I might have to take a minute, you all maybe go get a bio break, or I'm gonna have to take a second and kind of reflect, but then let's come back and let's try to figure this out. And and I think when people get stuck, if they go, well, to heck with it, you know, I'm just gonna pitch that, or try to push through without taking a second to um, you know, kind of be reflective, um, and and you know, use whatever information that they have, whether it's the people or otherwise, to say. Like, let's let's figure this out together.

SPEAKER_01 50:02

That's great. All right, we got a couple fun questions. I think I know which one Brody's gonna ask before we go to lightning round. So I'm gonna go with this one for our audio audience. Uh, if if you're if you're not able to see Emily in her office today, this next question is a little surprising because it says that you have 75 indoor plants that you like to tend and propagate. And I'm like, That's true, you have two wonderful windows in your office, and I'm like, where are these plants at?

SPEAKER_03 50:28

And so they're in my their third window, which is beyond my machines.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

You have three windows. This is that's another layer of this. But all right, so we're all jealous.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

I mean, I have great windows too. I I look right into the quad. So I feel I feel you, Emily, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

But as somebody that doesn't have any plants in his office, other than fake ones that won't die, right? Like, what what is your guidance here? Like you you get a love from this, but like help us people out that just kill plants.

SPEAKER_03 50:57

Oh my gosh. Well, I kill plenty. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry to say, um, audience here, but um, it's it's I do, I love them. I will one of my like sanctuary spaces in town are are the uh nurseries and the botanical spaces and our our our uh our kind of living gardens. I do um I probably overwater. I think I overtend, and that's what ends up killing them. I spend too much time paying attention to them. Um and so the ones that I neglect tend to be the ones that grow the most, and then I can propagate and you know share those out. My mother would uh it was the weirdest thing. She had this Christmas cactus, you might be familiar with that type of plant. And she would put that thing in her closet for like two months. And it was like this Christmas cactus that would bloom every like not only, not only a like a winter holiday, but like Easter and my birthday and like Mother's Day and any, you know, like talk like a pirate day. It would bloom every holiday. And I eventually said, What is this? And she said, and this is kind of a fun, but also it sticks with me, is you've got to stress them. She'll say, even in life, right, you've got to stress it. Like your roots will grow deeper when you're in a moment of stress. And so for that plan and for her, like that life lesson is sometimes you got to kind of let them dry out or you got to put them in the dark for a while. Um, and that builds that resilience, and you don't forgot about them. Um, and then they they really can can flourish. So uh I I think back that to that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

That's that's a great little lesson there. And I have to say, if your guidance for me is to put plants in my closet, spoiler alert, they're never coming out. They're gonna die there. But I like your lesson. That was good.

SPEAKER_00 52:52

Yeah, it is it is pretty good. So you you you're into traveling and exploring new spaces. What's a place you've been to here recently that you were like, yeah, this was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

Oh man. So um just last week I attended a a research meeting uh in LA. Um, but then for the for the weekend post post-conference, we traveled up the coast to the Santa Inez Valley. And this is about an hour north of Santa Barbara, right on the um right on the coast, and it it it's so lush, and that Santa Inez Mountains and the um Santa Maria and uh area is just you've got the ocean, you've got these mountainous hills, these lush um waterfalls that you can hike, the winds coming off the ocean have carved these wonderful caves that you can walk through and see these ocean views. I mean, listen, for all of all the listeners who are urban and city dwellers, bless you. Uh I needed to get out of that concrete space and into into an environment. And um, another plug is is Iceland. Ah, just uh talk about otherworldly, where you've got mountains and ocean and volcanoes and um just the just the natural um phenomena all colliding in one space, and it was just beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 54:23

That's amazing. Yeah, it's time. Yeah, we gotta do the lightning round, don't we?

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Lightning round.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

What's uh what is your favorite place on this campus to think?

SPEAKER_03 54:39

Oh I walk the quad a lot. You can you can see me just walking all the way around the quad, um uh thinking and uh and uh or the fourth floor of Miller Library.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

Oh, I've never been there.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Oh, you should go. Lots of windows.

SPEAKER_01 54:55

Okay, do you have a go-to pump up song?

SPEAKER_03 55:00

Eye of the Tiger, baby.

SPEAKER_01 55:02

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Love it, love it. Do you coffee or tea, Emily?

SPEAKER_03 55:08

Uh give me an Ivy of coffee all day long.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

Yes. Sorry, Kevin. This one's so deep. Yeah, I'm wrong. I know. No coffee ever in my life. Uh, best advice you've ever received. I had the plant one was pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

So my gosh. Best advice. You're not gonna make everybody happy.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Amen. Booker podcast you'd recommend the most right now.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Um, When Women Were Monsters. No, When Women Were Dragons. This is a book that I'm in right now.

SPEAKER_00 55:43

Awesome. What's it about?

SPEAKER_03 55:45

Um it is about it's about women standing tall and being strong and not um, it's a it's a fictional story um about how there was a period of time that uh women stopped taking licks or hits from society or the relationships they were in, and when they had just had enough, they turned into dragons, and they might have been a little bit um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:17

Fierce. You said fierce. You used that, we used that word or you used that word early in the show, and I like that. Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

What else, Kev? Anything? What is one word? This is my last one, one word to describe this season of your life.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

One word growing that's great.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

That's so hard. Yeah, so Emily, do you I'm gonna ask a fun question that's very inside jokey. I have a blanket that I have in that is like 20 years old and it's torn to shreds, but it has a lot of northern Iowa stuff on it. And one of the things it had on it was the top 10 things for that women's soccer season, the inaugural women's soccer season. And there's a there was a there's a great story about Catherine and Linda, who were the two coaches, and Katarina was there as well, uh, about a rain delay where you ended up in one of the two vans, and there was a van of solitude with Coach Whitehead, and like this party wagon van with my wife. Which van were you in, and what was that like? Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_03 57:28

Solitude.

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Oh no, that's terrifying. It was terrifying.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

I think I think it was uh I think it was it was uh fitting for um those two dynamic personalities housed within both of those um vans. Um and uh I think I probably found myself in the in the solitude one, um, probably because I was like last to get to the vans because I was cleaning stuff up or trying to uh to otherwise. Um but yeah, that uh the I think the that's where I was. I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 58:05

Oh boy. Well, Emily, it's been great to have you on. Yes, get you connected, and I'm super pleased that you were our first Illinois State University guest. You've been uh you've been an amazing uh guest on the show, and so we're so grateful to have had you on.

SPEAKER_03 58:21

Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 58:22

So nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_03 58:24

Yeah, it's been a pleasure, and I appreciate uh the work that you all do and uh for um sharing a little bit of time with me today.

SPEAKER_00 58:32

Thanks so much. Yeah, oh how wonderful. I loved that so much.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

You know, it's it's I I love certain parts of this, right? Like the connection to Illinois State for sure, you know, and the fact that this is somebody that you see often. I mean, this is the first guest from either of our home campuses, yeah. Um, and so that's uh that that's that was lovely. Um, and then you know, I got this question um when I was walking campus today, and they said, Hey, you know, like you had a Murray State guest on the show the last time, and I said, Yeah, and they're like, How did you end up at Murray? And like, where do you get such affinity from? And I was thinking about that and I answered the question, but then it was one of these things where, you know, I think back to like how people talk about their alma mater, both you and Emily had a same perspective of northern Iowa that I have of Murray, right? That it is just this special place and time that we remember so fondly, and and I love that about this journey of getting to reflect on the journey, but then also these institutions that were so special to us.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

Yeah. And I'll tell you, like one of the things I really appreciate, right? You know, I'd been in higher ed a long time when I came here to Illinois State, but one of the things that I'll always be really grateful for, right? You know, you come to a new place and you kind of have to prove yourself and do all those things. But Emily was one of the first persons that reached out to me when I got the job and was here on campus. And, you know, she's like, You and Kat and me, we need to get together and have dinner. And it just felt so grateful to have a familiar face from the past who kind of knew what you were about. So I'm I'm just really grateful for that. And that's kind of uh it's kind of the way that I've approached that relationship now. When we see each other on campus, it's always how you're doing and kind of revisiting and making sure that her kids are doing okay. And we need to do more of that, to be completely honest. She's one of the good ones for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

I love it. Speaking of good ones, let's do our top three, let's do our top three. And we're gonna start with the baseball theme, I think. Don't you think? Sticking in the sporting theme, and you said baseball stadium foods. Are we just saying stadium foods? Sure, that's fine. All right, we you do you have a top three? Am I starting? You go starting here. Do you have your three? Oh, yeah, I'm good. Let's do it. Let you go first. All right, so some of this is in sentimental value, right? Like I can remember old Bush Stadium when we had season tickets pre the strike and going to section 216. I really want to say it was 216. And like there was a joint that we would just stop by there and get a burger. And it was like every time we went to the game, we would get a cheeseburger. And so, stadium food, like I instantly go to the cheeseburger as being uh something I have to have. Um, and I'm not necessarily a hot dog guy. If I'm gonna go into the the family like that, it's gonna be a brat, but I'm gonna go with burger here. Now, second on this list for me, and I don't do this often because my stomach would hate me, is the loaded nachos. I mean, like, let's go. Like, just get those loaded nachos, and they are absolutely delicious, and and and I love that. And then I, you know, I don't know that I go a lot beyond that from the food standpoint. Like, the thing that came to mind is, and I've been several times to Great American Ballpark in Cincinnati, they have unbelievable chicken strips. It's the dumbest thing that that is something that stands out to me, but they have great chicken strips. But I think going to games with Braden, and we would, you know, eat all the things you can get kids, and they want this and they want that. Like, I remember him getting Italian ice, right? Like that flavored ice being this, this, this experience of that. So I'm putting it in my top three stadium foods. It's kind of a drink because it would melt, you know. But then also, like, for whatever reason, every time the Italian ice came person person came by, I got Hall and Oates Private Eyes and stuck in my head. And so, like, I'm singing Private Eyes, except with Italian ice coming for you. You know, like I mean, it's just I'm just having so much fun with it. So I I at least got to mention that as a top three. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:47

I'm I'm pretty simple. I mean, when I go to Bush Stadium, they do a bacon-wrapped hot dog, and it is fantastic. Yeah, and I always get that. That's my go-to when I go to St. Louis. I always have to have the bacon-wrapped hot dog, a little mustard, a little relish, and I'm good to go. Calorie-free, too, is what I hear. I don't know if that's true or not. Pretty protein heavy, pretty nitrate heavy. I mean, I won't know who I am by the time I'm an 80-year-old person, but I will have enjoyed that time at Bush Stadium, that's for sure. I I love nachos too, but and I would eat loaded nachos, but there's something about just putting some jalapenos and dipping that stuff into the cheese as well. I don't need the meat, but I mean, I agree with you. Those are great. I'm always dressed really well. I get nervous if we have the whole kit and caboodle, stuff nachos, that some of that's gonna get on my jersey, and I'm not very happy about that.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Yeah, let's be honest, you could put that cheese on a tire and you'd still eat it.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:41

So let's and then third, like I'm kind of I have this affinity. Look, nothing to me, when you go to a baseball game, nothing was better than getting the soft serve ice cream in the baseball cup and maybe putting some chocolate fudge on top of that, a strawberry, like banana split, whatever it is, and then being able to take that that baseball cap home. I've got a couple of those in my uh on my bookshelf. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

Those are good ones. Yeah, I we had a lot of fun there. Yeah, well, this has been great. Send us home. All right. That was it for this edition of the pickup meeting gang. I hope all of your meetings, whether they're formal or pickup style, are as fun and as meaningful as this one. Until then, the next one, I guess, or until the next one, let's just do good and be nice. How about that? Be nice.