Ep. 29 - A "Just Us" Episode

In this “Just Us” episode of The Pickup Meeting, Kevin and Brody bounce from Earth Day to Record Store Day to the very real question of how higher ed professionals survive the end-of-semester whirlwind. Along the way, they swap stories about walkable communities, vinyl lines at dawn, pin collecting, burnout, balance, and why staff sustainability deserves a bigger spotlight. It is thoughtful, funny, a little chaotic, and full of the kind of honest conversation that feels like catching up with colleagues who get it. Plus, they wrap things up by sharing their favorite parts of the end of the academic year. 

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go. Welcome to The Pickup Meeting. I'm Kevin Thomas, yes. Don't adjust your sets. Don't adjust your hearing devices. Older audience, I'm this great. No, I don't know where to go with that. I'm here with Brody Broshears.  He's decked in red today for us.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I'm, I'm okay. I don't know that. I'm great, but I'm happy to be here. I'm always excited to do these just us episodes.

Kevin Thomas  
They're a lot of fun, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, it's just us.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, and here's my thing. I'm curious how people listen to us. Have we talked about this before?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Oh, we're gonna go off script. We have not talked about this. 

Kevin Thomas  
We're just jumping out of this thing, right? Like we'll get to Earth Day in a second. Hold your horse. I'm sitting here thinking about this, that if I was listening to this. Would I be doing it on a walk, or am I doing it in a car? For those folks that haven't right, you've got to send us an email at the pickup meeting@gmail.com, you got to let us know how you're listening to the show. Like, is it on your drive, your walk, your run. Like, are you? Are you hate listening to us at any points, like, what's happening. I might grab a Diet Coke, where some people might say, for a pickup meeting, they need to have a coffee. What do you think?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Man, I would listen in a car. I would listen from afar. I would I tend to when the episode comes out. I go right to YouTube and watch, usually, usually, when I usually when I wake up in the mornings, like I like to see us talk to the guest. That's the way I do it. I will sometimes listen over lunch, but I've got other podcasts I like to listen to when I walk, or I'm listening to music when I walk, but yeah, that's how I listen,

Kevin Thomas  
slash watch. I know now I'm going to pivot back to what we're supposed to be talking about, Mother freaking Earth. Let's go. You know it's Earth Day. When this recording comes out, it is Earth Day. And you know, there's nothing more important than our place of residence, don't you agree? Like, am I doing this wrong? Like, how are we doing on Earth Day?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I don't know. I mean, I I wish we were doing better, if I were to be honest. I mean, I'm trying to do my part. You know? I'm recycling and I'm I don't know. I don't take bags at the grocery store. Cat and the girls, my oldest daughter, and my wife, are really into kind of tending to the earth and doing, you know, outdoors things. And so, I mean, I'm always appreciative. I love getting out into nature, and I'm trying to do my part. Well, I don't know what else I can say about that.

Kevin Thomas  
Like, what do you want to say about it? I don't know, right? Like, here's the thing is, I think it's a significant day, because we should at least be considering what we're doing to where we live and how it impacts. But do I think I'm doing enough? No, probably not. I think this is like my physical health. I will do all I can do to take care of my physical health. Is it everything I can do? Probably not. Same thing with the globe, right? I think that's where I get to in it, and so I'm doing my best. But I can already tell you really don't want to talk about Earth Day. No, I just this. Is this where it's at. Our audience is always like you guys talk about sports a lot you should talk about something else. I don't like. Earth Day is a stretch for us.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Look, here's the thing I where I live in Bloomington, puts me within walking distance of a grocery store, a trail system that's amazing. Downtown Bloomington, Uptown, normal, and so on the weekends now, we do a ton of walking, especially with the weather better, right? Like we're in our car a lot less. And that was a real intentional choice. We wanted to be kind of in a walkable place. Bloomington Normal is a pretty walkable city, and so I think when you can make conscious choices like that, that that are carbon neutral or that help the earth in those ways, I think that's great, plus it's been good for my health. But it's, it's been, it's been a nice choice. It's a lot different than where I lived in Evansville, which was so car heavy. I mean, I had to drive to go run, and here I can just open my door and I'm, I'm on a trail. It's, it's amazing,

Kevin Thomas  
yeah, I like that thought, right? And I stayed a lot, and a lot of aspects of life control what you can control. Yeah. And in this way, you know, recently I moved into an apartment, and one of the things that I wanted to control in that is being close enough to campus to walk to work, yeah? And so, like, that was for health, but there's also a benefit for other reasons. And so I think that's a win. Yeah. You know,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
you did kind of surprise me with Earth Day, because when I was thinking about today's episode. I was thinking about Record

Kevin Thomas  
Store Day. You're always thinking about record store record something, yes, and today is Record Store Day.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, last weekend was Record Store Day. And I got, you know, you get into line and you wait and you get mostly what you want. And it's such a great community. Like, when we talk about community, like the vinyl community is really fun. And so a couple times a year, I wake up at four or five o'clock in the morning, I get in line, and the the big list came out earlier in the semester, and you start Markin, what you want and

Kevin Thomas  
hold on. Hold on for our audience at home, or me, what list are you talking about? So there's a

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
record store day list of all the records that are going to be released on Record Store Day. And I make a list of the things that I want. I send them to the the owner of the record store where I'm going to go that day, and he makes sure that there's going to be at least one copy in there. And then you got to get in line and fight the rest of the crew. But it's not really a fight. It's more about like, you know, celebrating the community that listens to vinyl.

Kevin Thomas  
It's super fun. And you talk about this vinyl community, like, one of the things that I do, like, from a community standpoint, of things and and I did this, I had a rental vehicle up in Michigan about a year ago, and I got a jeep. And you talk about a community like, around Jeep, and you see people in other jeeps, like, that's on, like, let's go right. People are waving at you, or they're looking to see if you have any ducks in your windows, which I don't understand. I've looked up and still don't necessarily understand, is there identifiers outside of being at a record store for the vinyl community? Like, could people see Brody and be like, that's a that's a record?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, that

Kevin Thomas  
guy's vinyl to the end.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, I don't think so. But like, I'm mean, I do fit all bald

Kevin Thomas  
men in their 40s. Yeah,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
the demographic hits pretty good. There's no question about that. Look, I would say that what's more interesting about the community is like, when you get into line and you're waiting to get into the store. It's really just about like, what are you listening to? What what are you really enjoying right now? What's your vibe? In terms of what do you like to collect? I mean, I think there's a bluey record, for example, that was out last weekend. But there's also the new thievery corporation or something like that. Like, you can find anything. Hold on hold on hold on hold on

Kevin Thomas  
so part of this community is before you go into the store, you get into a line to get in the store, and then you're talking to people that you don't know about music that they're listening to.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Sure, absolutely,

Kevin Thomas  
I'm gonna tell you this sounds like a special place in hell to me.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I mean, do you ever stand in line at a grocery store and ask people how they're doing?

Kevin Thomas  
No who though, why are you talking to people? Don't be that guy. How are we friends? What is happening? This is so much to handle, like That sounds terrible. This sounds like the commercials. You know, the commercials where they're like, So and so got this insurance and they're turning into their parents. You are that guy. I am not. What do you got going over there? Oh yeah. Listen to Michael Jackson. Yeah. I also like, Lionel Richie. I don't know what those things have to do, but like, what do you want? Like, this is, I don't understand this community at all. Like, I just usually would say,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Hey, what are you here for? Like, you know, you're

Kevin Thomas  
in a record store. What do

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
you think they're in line at five o'clock? Like, what are you hoping to get? Oh, my gosh. I don't even like, this is a lot. I don't think it's that hard to understand.

Kevin Thomas  
Oh my gosh. Somebody that split things for us to come on. This is why we have guests normally that come in and be like, yep, Brody's insane.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
What community do you? I mean, do you talk to people who get pins? Do you have any any other people who collect pins like

Kevin Thomas  
you listen? I kind of started a podcast with another person that does pins. It's Matt Markin. He's right there.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, do you ever talk about pins?

Kevin Thomas  
I you know, I mean sometimes, not very often, but it's not like if we were in line. I don't know. This is a lot. Brody, I have heard

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
several conversations from you guys before we go on. On about pins. Don't tell me that doesn't happen.

Kevin Thomas  
Okay, don't try to make yourself feel better and normal, trying to normalize Matt and I in our pin collection. This is so much.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Hey, there is good news, right? When I, when I do this record store thing, the other thing I do, like it, is spring so I am spring cleaning. I I have been able to get rid of a ton of records, right? Like, I'm really trying to curate my collection. You know, when I first started collecting, I just was buying everything. I've bought way too much. And so now I'm trying to say, Are these records that I really need? Are they bringing me joy? Like, I, I'm, I'm doing a good job getting rid of as well as bringing new stuff in. So there is that

Kevin Thomas  
I like that thought in your need for normalization. Here, I will say the same happens for pins as I'm putting them on. It's like, Ooh, I like this pin, but can I wear it in public? I like this pin, but what does it mean to me? Who gave it to me? Who? How did I get this one? Yeah, there's, there's different aspects of that. All right, good, good chat. Good, good opening. Here. We did okay, I did not see special place in hell coming from this, but it for sure, sounds like it. But here's something that we don't talk about enough in life or higher education, which is what happens to people doing the work at the end of the semester. And so, you know, we talk on this show a lot about advising, student success, higher education, aspects of things that are going on. But I don't know that we always ask, like, how are staff members doing? How are they succeeding? How are they persisting? And so we want to have a little conversation here about staff sustainability, and for many of you, as you're listening to this that final stretch of the semester. And so what are your thoughts on this Brody? And you know, do you have personal experience that you reflect on as we talk about this topic? Yeah, you

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
know that? Gosh, it's almost 15 years ago now, I started to talk about happiness and meaning making in the workplace. And you know, the reason I did that is because I wasn't very happy in the work, and it was stressful. And I think the emotional labor of the work is real. I think advising is certainly, for example, a lot more complex and challenging work here in the last 10 years. And really all higher ed work, from my perspective, has gotten more complex, and oftentimes we're being asked to do more with less, and that takes a toll for sure. And so the end of the year is a time where I think it can accumulate. It can get really, really heavy and hard. And to me, being engaged is important. And how do you we can maybe get to this, but how do you keep people engaged when the work is hard and challenging, but also assure that, ensure that people have a chance to recharge and rejuvenate.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, and in, you mentioned your presentations on happiness, and I would be remiss if I didn't mention, you know, we're talking into the semester here, but you did your happiness session, and I don't remember who you did it

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
with this year? Fill me in. Greg Mason.

Kevin Thomas  
Oh, yeah, you and Greg did that session at the administrators Institute. And as far as those breakout sessions, it was a top three session. And I would say it was probably a top two session, because the number one session was somebody, you were going against two, right? And so, like, I think that there's maybe a hunger in a different way than even normal for, you know, a conversation about well being and productivity and balance and happiness and and how those things really function. And so I don't want to not, you know, spotlight the fact that you do great work in that conversation. But I think people are hungry for that, this topic to occur. And so when you're talking about the staffing standpoint of things, I think there's things that we do as leaders, whether it's the end of semester or at any point on, is ensuring that people understand the priorities of life, yeah, and so, like, there's a lot of things that have happened with my team over the last year, childbirth and death and families and different things. And you get these messages from folks that are explaining the situation, and the easiest response, I think, as a leader, is I'm here for if you need anything, family first, what do you? What do you? What do you? What do you need from me, right? Like, it's those things that I think can help in these moments where it can get more stressful and more crunched and more condensed in the semester, to know that your supervisor. Has your back. You know that your supervisor understands that priorities in life is happening. Those things stand out to me pretty quickly in this conversation.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, humanity does have to come first. I don't think there's any question about that. Another way that I like to think about it is, you know, we're responsible to our students, but we're not responsible for our students, and I always like to remind folks of that, and that can be a hard balance, for sure. I mean, we need to do the work that's necessary to help students be successful, but we're not responsible for their success. We're responsible to serve them the best that we can, and and we have to go home sometimes and let that go. And it is a skill that has to be developed. And it's not an easy skill, I think, especially for some of our newer professionals, I don't think it's an easy skill to get. It takes some time to sort out that balance. And I think as supervisors, we want to be there for staff. And so I think it's constant check ins and engagement and and it can't be a time where you're not prioritizing, kind of even like, what are the goals of this role? What are you hoping to accomplish? Just friendly reminders and helping make sure that that staff's basic needs are being met right when we bring in new staff. You know, are staff able to do the work that they want to do the majority of the time? Do they do they have the tools they need to be successful? Are they well trained and onboarded? Does somebody take a personal invested interest in their successes? Do they? Are they able to develop friendships at work, like all of those things matter to the overall sustainability in the workplace? Yeah, I also

Kevin Thomas  
think there's things as leaders and colleagues that we can do that are smart to support those people around us that are maybe a little emotionally spent. I think back to there's a couple times I remember Maureen Bell Warner, who's now in a registrar's office at St Louis University. And Maureen and I would do individuals where we would go for a walk and essentially do the conversation we were going to do, but walk around campus on a nice day. Yeah, it's those things that can be a factor. Or instead of sitting in your office, just walking to the other side of campus and to get a coffee or soda or something to drink, and just do that a little differently, take things outside of the norm, and sometimes those can be comforts to kind of overcome some of the emotional stress and pressure that we do face in our positions.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I think gratitude. You know, you talked about gratitude at the last just us episode as it related to graduation, but I think gratitude for staff, and I think especially when you can frame that with a specific task or work that's been done, or specific student scenario where a person's been really helpful, people want to hear they want to hear things from supervisors. Hey, you did a great job with this student. I noticed that this issue was a tough one, and you handled that like a champ. I think those things really matter too. It doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be something grandiose. It could be a quick email, or a note on teams, or if you see somebody after a meeting and you chat with them and say, hey, somebody told me about this. That's amazing. You did. You did a fantastic job.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah. And I think those things that we can do, that they go beyond the norm and also, like humanize what we're what we're doing in our everyday life. And I've mentioned this before on the podcast, but I'm a big proponent of mental health, right? Like going to see a counselor and making sure that you take care of yourself. And I will say that there are a lot of people that sit in chairs that we sit in, that don't talk about that, that don't share those things. It's on my calendar. I go to counseling once a week. I think it's super healthy. I think everybody should go to counseling. You know, in that normalizing of certain behaviors that are healthy, we you and I both talk about, you know, our steps and goals and steps and being physically active and and all those things. And I know right now you're dealing with some health stuff with your sciatica, this is a different conversation, but like we I think normalizing the conversations about the things that we do says that from a behavioral standpoint, it's things that people should consider,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
yeah, and absolutely. And so to me, what you're really starting to think about is kind of separating out from the work identity, right? When our when our identity is so tied to work, I think that can lend itself to burnout situations, right? And so we have. To diversify our identities, and that has to be a real, intentional process, right? So what does what does that mean, right? Simone salts off is a guy that I really like. He wrote this book called The good enough job, and he talks about the dangers of not diversifying our identities when we get tied to our work identity only. Burnouts a lot more possible, right? Bringing bad energy to our house is a lot more possible. And so he really stresses the idea that like whatever that is, movement or hobbies, pin collecting, vinyl collecting, working in the garden right watching or playing sports, that finding intentional ways to integrate that into your life is really important. Catherine price talks about fun, and I oftentimes, when I do these sessions on happiness and meaning making, will ask people what they do for fun, and I'm asking grown people what they do for fun, and they can't give me answers. And that is problematic, right? And so I think part of this too is diversifying our identities, right? There needs to be a different identity from work. Work can be important. It can be an important part of what we do, but it can't be the only thing, because I think what it lends itself to is bringing home bad energy and bringing home worse energy to the people that matter the most.

Kevin Thomas  
What I encourage the audience to do, and this is sometimes a painful activity to do. Yes, we're giving you homework at this pickup meeting. This is a lot. I love it. One of the things that are a previous guest, Rebecca Hayes, who was on the show at the beginning of April, she and I had had this conversation, and when we talked a little bit about this, when she was on the show, to where finding that balance between your professional identity or personal identity is is not an easy thing to do, no, and and so, you know, she had gone through some things, and we all go through some things. And finally, she got to a point where she was realizing that her identity was becoming too much of one thing and not of the things that mattered the most to her. And so I would just encourage you to maybe, you know, on a piece of paper, depending on how you're listening to the show, if you're driving, don't write this down right now. But think about this, you know, like if you were going to describe you and describe that identity of who you are in a paragraph, how, what does it look like? Is it Brody bro shears, director of this, you know, is it Brody brochures? You know, runner, lover of vinyl, you know, like, what is it that is your identity that's there? And writing that down and saying, you know, like, how am I describing me in a three sentence paragraph, as opposed to how I want to be able to describe me to the world, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And I think I love that. I love that idea. I think the other piece too, when we start to think about burnout and engagement, certainly happier people are more productive people, right? And so I often will talk about like one thing that really was useful to me was trying to rewire my brain to the good. And it doesn't mean you're always going to be happy, but if we take time to focus on two or three things every day that went really well, or that we're or that we're really happy about, and we start to normalize that like if we do that for 2021, days, three weeks now, all of a sudden, our brain is rewired to to see the good, because our brain is generally defaulted to the negative, and so we have to rewire the brain to think a little bit differently. And I don't, I'm not suggesting that this is the only, none of us are suggesting that these are the only things that that might solve burnout or stress in the workplace, but they are good places to start. They are small things that you can do, and even when you're diversifying that identity. I think lots of times, people go for these grandiose ideas, like, if I'm going to exercise, maybe I should run a marathon. No, you don't have to run a marathon. Just go out and walk at lunch. Make sure you commit to that. Or make sure that you get up in the morning and you walk your dog a significant amount, more than just let it now to go to the restroom, right? There are smaller things that you can do, and those actions are really important. They can move you into motivation to continue to find ways to diversify. And so I think there's the gratitude piece, and then there's the action piece that that, in many ways, can help us kind of deal with how stretched we might feel here at the end of the year.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I like it. And speaking of the gratitude piece, listen. I'm really, really thankful for you and thankful that we've reached the point in the show that we're going to transition to the best things about the end of the school year. For a lot of us on that are listening today on our campuses, we're not that far away from the end. No, we're not on my campus graduations next week like we're here. And so top three things, best things about the end of the school year. So this could be personal, professional, nostalgic, whatever you got. Top three things, do you want me to go first? Are you ready to go? You can go.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You can go first again. Let's do it all.

Kevin Thomas  
Right, so I think some of this is because of how I grew up in higher ed, being in housing. But somehow I love when you're walking through campus in the energy that comes with you see people moving out, and there's this energy, and there's a happiness, but there's also occasionally a sadness that's there, because for some folks, they may not see these people in the way that they've seen them the last year, whether that's living in residence halls or just people that they know from campus, and seeing that excitement of the end of the year coupled with the sadness of parts of a journey coming to an end, I really like that one a lot. I will also say I really do enjoy those, like, last times that you do something with people and so, like, I can think back to the end of a year, and especially when I was at Murray State and being like, All right, we're going to go to Los Portales for the last time this year. Yeah, you stole it. I like that one. And so I did steal it, because I said, Do you want to go first? And then, you know, the other one that that kind of hangs with me is this into the year, but it's, it's the Monday after graduation, right when all of a sudden your campus is quieter than than it ever normally is, and you just like, it's just a there's, there's a deep breath that you get to take as you say, Okay, what's next? And I like that feeling of what's next. Did I steal all of yours?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I think you did. It's okay. No. So look, we asked some questions like, is the last day of finals versus the first day of summer break? Which is better? And I think, as someone who's now either lived or worked on a college campus since 1989 those last days of finals, right, both as a student and even as a staff member, are fun, right? You can go out and you're hanging out with friends. You know, you mentioned the Mexican restaurant. You know, for us it was either kilroys or Mother Bears at IU as undergraduates, I loved being done, walking Kirkwood, going shopping, getting some CDs back in the 90s. Kevin, right? We were past tapes and on to CDs

Kevin Thomas  
at tracks and and you weren't cool enough for vinyl yet. No, I

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
wasn't cool enough for vinyl yet. So, yeah, that is, that is definitely one of the best things about the end of a school year. I know I've kind of, I used to work graduation, and I sometimes I'm like, if I don't ever work another graduation in my life, it'll be but seeing students in in their garb and their regalia, and going through those ceremonies is pretty special, yeah, and Illinois State, right? We've got a statue right in front of Phil Hall, and a lot of the pictures take place there, and so it's just amazing to see how excited the students are here at the end. I mean that that is amazing,

Kevin Thomas  
the regalia piece, you're right, like seeing people. You know, I do a lot of walking on campus, and it really does start when the weather gets nicer, but when you start to see the people that are planning ahead with their pictures and getting out and taking photos in their regalia. And that's that's a different energy too, like little little little nostalgic.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And you know, after that I just, I my family, now we've been taking our vacation in May, kind of right after the end of that school year, and I think now, like it's getting close to the time where the four of us are going to be able to be together and spend a week, kind of doing something really fun. And we've committed to that the last several years, and it's made all the difference, kind of getting me heading into the summer with the right mindset. And so I'm always looking forward to my vacation that's coming up in the middle of May. We're going to Maine this year. I've never been to Maine. Nice. My nephew is graduating from Bowdoin College. I think we're going to hit Boston and and Portland Maine and. And I'm really excited about that, but every year that I've done that, like, the end of the school year means vacation now, right, a chance to kind of recharge and get reset. It's fantastic.

Kevin Thomas  
Well, just like the this, this podcast, and just like most of us with our academic years, we've come to the end, and we've made it. And that's not nothing. That's actually a lot to everyone that's listening. Thank you for powering through, showing up for students all year and showing up for this podcast and listen it. What you're doing matters, and so we just want to say thank you for doing that. Thank you for mattering in students lives, and thank you for the work you're doing on the campuses that you're doing them on,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
yeah, and as a as a reminder, right? We always love to hear from you all, so reach out to us at the pickup meeting@gmail.com. We generally love hearing from you, and we'll be back here in a couple of weeks, and we can't wait. Did you

Kevin Thomas  
say we generally love hearing from you?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, I mean, we generally do.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Maybe that's the stroke talking Kevin, I don't know.

Kevin Thomas  
Or maybe that's the end of the semester hitting us. But generally, we like hearing from your little always less

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
than that. All right, folks, we you've listened to us long enough. That's it for this edition of the pickup meeting. We hope your own meetings formal or pickup style or as meaningful and as fun as this one. Until next time, let's do good and

Kevin Thomas  
be nice. Be nice. You. You.