Ep. 10 - Chrissy Davis Jones, HACC Central Pennsylvania's Community College

In this milestone 10th episode of The Pickup Meeting, Kevin and Brody celebrate double digits with an unforgettable guest, Dr. Chrissy Davis Jones, Vice President of Student Success and Enrollment Management at HACC, Central Pennsylvania’s Community College.

From transforming student retention with a “data as a flashlight” philosophy to leading with heart (and humor), Chrissy shares her journey from aspiring pediatrician to higher ed powerhouse. Oh, and did we mention she once competed in an international pancake race? 🥞

Tune in for lively banter, leadership insights, and the perfect mix of inspiration and laughter as we talk enrollment cliffs, advising wins, and why Brussels sprouts might just deserve a second chance.

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go. Welcome to The Pickup Meeting. We've made it to our 10th episode Brody Broshears. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Man, that feels great.

Kevin Thomas  
Doesn't it, right? I think we had been chatting at some point in this process, and you said you had read that lot of podcasts only reach episode one, and then they never do another episode. We added a zero behind ours, so now we're at 10. Did you think we'd get here?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I kind of did. I thought we're having enough fun that it's hard, it's hard to stop. I can't quit you, Kevin Thomas, right? 

Kevin Thomas  
It's true. We can't quit each other. It is one of these fun things from a time standpoint. We had just gotten back from the annual conference and attended a session that our producer extraordinaire Matt Markin did on podcasting being a part of the narrative right, being a part of just the academic aspect of learning and growing and of the profession as a whole, and I couldn't help but think about how our podcast is now a part of that conversation, because we made it to 10 episodes at one. It didn't matter.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is. I have been really impressed, like I was just thinking about Isabella's episode yesterday, and I was listening to it again this morning, right as I was getting ready to go for today's episode. She just had so many good nuggets in there. And so I do, I do realize how much I'm learning from our guests and from this experience. It really has informed some of the ways I've been thinking about my work here in the last semester.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, and one of the things that kind of blew me away was where we would be in certain conversations while we were at the annual conference, and all of a sudden, you and I would look at each other and you would say that conversation came from our show, yeah, right. Or talking to our good colleague, Patty Griffin and her talking about using our podcast in training and development, that was pretty mind blowing. That's wild, yeah, like wild and so to Patty Griffin staff, bless you.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
She assigns listening to our podcast as an assignment. Is that torture?

Kevin Thomas  
Just for people that don't like us? Everybody else loves this.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I guess that could be true.

Kevin Thomas  
So while traveling, I was thinking about these things right, like pet peeves of unspoken rules in life, and for me, like the the ultimate pet peeve is the person that has is watching something on their phone or listening to something on their phone and decides that everyone on God's green earth needs to also listen to it as well, right? Like, how is this still a thing? And so, like, I think the pet peeve unspoken rule is the there's a recent headphones were invented, yes. Like, you do this though, don't you? I can see it.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
But you know who's really bad at this? Kevin, my wife is terrible at this.

Kevin Thomas  
Sorry Cat, but I hate it.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
She's always listening to stuff while I'm trying to watch a TV show or like, we'll be driving and I'll have my music on, and all of a sudden, I'm now listening to some science 10 second little nugget that at that moment, I'm really interested in my song instead.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, it's the worst.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You mentioned driving. I was thinking about my pet peeves, and I drive a lot, and now I live four hours from my kids and from my mom and from my in laws, so I'm driving a little bit more since I took this new gig at Illinois State University. And let me tell you something, nothing infuriates me more than driving slow in the passing lane, like, Come on, just get over. Would you get over? If you're going to drive slow, just get into the right lane. So people like me that have places to go and people to see can get around you easily. What is that deal like? I don't get it.

Kevin Thomas  
I leave tomorrow for an annual trip to Gatlinburg with fraternity brothers from college. I'm excited about it. Ben Gross, previous guest, I get to catch up with him tomorrow. I'm excited. And I also have to travel from the Little Rock area to Memphis, and the stretch of Interstate is what you're referring to, for three hours? Yes, where you get to a point where now you're driving is get into the passing lane. Drive as fast as you can, because no one's going to pull over and get in your way at that point, because you're not going to get stuck behind another slow driver in the left lane. I feel you were paying on this one.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yes, it's terrible.

Kevin Thomas  
It's the worst, and there's nothing you can do. And so then you get to this point, where do you let road rage begin? Or do you find a great song and sing in the radio? Where do you go?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Brody, I have a bumper sticker on the back of my car that says, Guster is for lovers, and I sometimes scream that just angrily.

Kevin Thomas  
I don't think that's what they meant by that one.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I know I have been known to do both. Yeah, my kids would say that, yeah, I don't think they learned swearing from me in the car, but I've sworn at people before that. It does happen from time to time.

Kevin Thomas  
I would like to say I'm the better person here, and I always stay calm and cool and relaxed, but I'd be lying to you if I said those things. Yes, you would be. And so I can't, I can't say those things. Hey. So before we bring on our guest, we are back from Vegas in the Vegas adventure that was the NACADA annual conference. Yeah, and, and, I think we would be just skipping out on a whole lot if we did not mention that you received your award, the Bobby's clarity service NACADA award, yeah, and you gave your speech and you had, had had that moment. Do you want to talk a little bit about like, what that was like?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It was good. I really enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun to give the speech and to be recognized. It was great to have cat and you and some of the folks that nominated me there, it was fun to kind of see all the award winners, like Marsha Miller's speech was wonderful too. But, I mean, I continue to get nice little notes of congratulations and yeah, it feels great.

Kevin Thomas  
You did a tremendous job. Tremendous job on your speech. We're going to work on getting that out there for the guests to be able to partake in. But you did a tremendous job. And I thought it was a nice, nice moment to take in.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I got to tell a story about my dad that was really fun. And I got to thank my wife in person, which was equally amazing and in between, right? I've just been really fortunate. You know, all the institutions where I've worked have supported me. I acknowledge that right professional development and service to the association wasn't just something I got to do, it was pretty much encouraged by every place where I've worked. And I feel really blessed to have that, because not everybody gets that right. Some people are are resorted to having to listen to our podcasts right as their only form of professional development. I got to travel the world, and it's been great, and I'm grateful for it.

Kevin Thomas  
It is a fantastic point. We were very fortunate to get to be there and thankful for our institutions to send us and connect. And in each year, we've been able to do it, and that connection might lead us to our next guest. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, today we're really excited. You know, we have a special guest join us in welcoming Chrissy Davis Jones, Vice President of Student Success and Enrollment Management at H, A, C, C, Central Pennsylvania's Community College. Did we get that right? Chrissy. 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
You got a HACC? HACC, yeah. 

Kevin Thomas  
I can't. I can't help but remember that from Orlando, when we last presented together. Chrissy, yes. Like, you introduced yourself, and you're like, it's a mouthful. Just remember, hack, yeah, yeah. Like, I have no idea. Like, there was a there was a period time I was trying to connect with you, and I'm like, I cannot remember the institution. I remember, HACC, yeah, and that's gonna get me halfway there. So...

Chrissy Davis Jones  
good job. Good memory. Love it.

Kevin Thomas  
Good teaching right there.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I didn't remember that, but I should have maybe.

Kevin Thomas  
Chrissy, we're so happy you're here with us and listen all of our guests say, this is the questions we asked at the beginning. They're not nervous. Us about the questions we asked at the end during the lightning round, when we got to talk about you like that's the ones that make them nervous. And so I we're going to flip it today. No, I'm kidding. We're not going to flip it today.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
I'm ready for a flip. I'm ready for a flip. Stay ready. Stay ready.

Kevin Thomas  
You're you've got a you've got a long career in Community and Technical College context, and looking back like what brought you there and what keeps you energized about the work that you do, because you do Chrissy bring a certain energy to what you do, that I think, has to be contagious for those that are around you.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Well, I absolutely love community and technical colleges. I know that we are a microcosm of the world, like we are the people. And I say that we are diverse in nature, everything from political views to gender identity, you name it. It's at the community college. I think one of the things that really sparked my interest, it wasn't necessarily a career field that I necessarily wanted to go into as an undergraduate. My mom became really ill, so I had to get a job. And so I started working at Wyoming Technical Institute when it was just WyoTech, and it was in a single location in Wyoming, and they hired me full time, so I was working full time and going to school full time. So just imagine that as like an 18 year old trying to navigate that space. But what I really realized is that I love to connect with the students. When I was moved from behind the scenes to in front of the students, they had very diverse backgrounds. We had individuals who were coming from all walks of life, to Laramie Wyoming from like Pennsylvania, where I'm at right now, New York, California, because they want to come to this very prestigious technical automotive school. And so I knew then that I was hooked, and I stayed in the field since then.

Kevin Thomas  
I love it. Chrissy, you said that this wasn't what you envisioned doing. What was the envisioning that you were you were hoping to do?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
So my big plan was to become a pediatrician. So my mom said, since I was the age of five, one day I will come home and say, I want to be a doctor. The next day I come home and say, I want to become a teacher. And I will go back and forth like that. And so I was five, I those are the things that I could think of becoming. And I laugh now, because I'm like, I became a doctor of teachers, right? And so, you know, as a baby, as a child, I had never known such a thing as to become or get a doctorate in education. So I fulfill one half of my dream and the other half, but it just didn't manifest the exact way I had signed to be, to become so, you know, I just say I'm a doctor of teachers, but I still get to help people, and that's the ultimate heart of what we do. You know, as a doctors, you want to help people, and I get to do that in what I do every day.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's awesome. You know, when you joined hack in April 2021, did you anticipate the scale or the pace of the work around student retention, enrollment and the trans formation that you've since taken on?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Not at all, not at all. I had a background in doing enrollment management prior to my work at HACC, but at that time, it was all about new students. And I think that was, that was the thing in enrollment management, anyone who's been in profession is all about how many new students can you get in? And as we started to narrow the enrollment cliff, we had to think differently about, well, how do you retain the students you have? So you don't want to have a revolving door. And so when I arrived at hat, it was also the pandemic. Oh, right. So another layer that I'll now that I was not equipped for. I was like, Oh my gosh. We gotta a pandemic. We have students who are stopping out to work. You have to wear the mask. You know, we also have technical programs here. So we have welding, we have automotive, but we also have nursing. So many of those type of programs require some type of hands on activity, so we have to figure out how to bring some or pockets of students to campus in order to keep them on track to graduate on time, right? Then, you couple that with at that time, we had several local employers who were offering $15, $16 per hour to work at the gas station. Yeah, our work study jobs were at 750 so in the midst of that, we were like, we're losing students to employers. So we have to figure out, okay, how do we increase our work study wage so that students will want to stay in school? So all of this stuff was happening at the same time, and so I kept saying, you know, we really need to hone in on our retention and utilize our work study program as a retention strategy. So that was kind of our segue into. To ensuring that we were able to, one increase the wage for our work study program, but also leverage that as an opportunity to keep our students engaged and on campus. And since then, we it's just taken off. We've been very like, laser focused on, how do we retain the students we have, recognizing that the enrollment cliff is now here, the one, the demographic cliff we've been talking about.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I forget about, and I think we often forget about the role that on campus employment can play in building community and sustaining engagement with our students on our campuses. That's such a great point, right? And to to kind of focus in on that during that crisis time, I assume, had real, great positive impacts on your campus.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
It did eventually, not at first, because we had already lost some of our students to the $15 wage, right, like so we were trying to, you know, court them back, like Michael Jackson, Jackson Five I want you back. Like we had to come up with a campaign like, we want you back, you know, yeah, home, back. We have a good pay, and we can work around your schedule, and you actually get to study while you know you're at work. And that's one of the benefits. That's not necessarily at a gas station or grocery store. Like you will work while you're there. We will honor your coursework and try to balance that out so that it did eventually take off, and we actually haven't seen an increase in our work study program. But that was a tough time, because we really did have to be like the Jackson Five, like...

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I mean, Kevin, maybe we should ask this. Like, I forgot my first I mean, I had to work when I went to school. My first job was in the dining halls right at Indiana University, $3.10 an hour, 1989 Good God, but, but that experience put me, made me a part of campus, right? And then I became a manager of the morning shift in my sophomore year, and it allowed me to then interview for the RA position and get an RA position. Then you find your way into higher ed, and all of a sudden you're doing a podcast 2030, some odd years later, right? Talking about higher ed like it just happened, just like that,

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Just like that.

Kevin Thomas  
Chrissy, I think, I think that you know, when we talk about enrollment and retention right now, you know it is a topic that people really want to hear about, but also maybe don't think about the layers that are there. And I was fortunate to present with you several years back, and I thought your perspective on enrollment and retention, especially for community college level, was enlightening. So like, what do you think that schools are getting wrong when it comes to enrollment and retention? And how are you earning the success that you're earning? You know, I think I saw improved fall to spring retention for the first time in 10 years at HACC. You know, in you know, you're doing it right. What do schools need to be considering and maybe, what are they doing right now that they should consider doing differently?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
There's a couple things that as I think about just a shift in the profession when it comes to enrollment planning, is thinking differently against not necessarily focusing on the beginning part of the academic journey, like the inquiries and the admission part, those are important, but what is the strategy to keep them? We you have to keep them, otherwise you're going to try to keep bringing in new students. And I think that's an area that we may have neglected unintentionally, just in the profession over the years. When we shift our focus to actual enrollment health, you have to think about enrollment planning or enrollment planning or enrollment management from an enrollment health perspective, and that means that we want all elements of the enrollment funnel to be healthy, everything from the intake part of it, which is the outreach, the recruitment pieces and those arms, to how we onboard students. So are we preparing our students to be successful once they actually attend our colleges and universities. What do they need to know today versus what do they need to know the next three semesters? And it can't be a dump of everything we've learned over our 20 years in a two hour orientation session. That's the other piece, right? How do we ensure that the information is readily available to students after they do that snapshot in time of what we call orientation. The other piece that we found very beneficial with our students is over 75% of our students attend part time. That to us, that data dive lets us know something about the population that we serve, and so that lets us know that our students are working. That lets us know that our students are probably caregivers and they are that also lets us know that our students are managing very busy lives. So to say that school is your number one priority, back in the day, I remember people say, if school ain't your number priority, you need to stop out and come back when. Already well, we know that that's not going to fly with our student demographic. Our students are already telling us upon entry. I have other things. So how do we as an institution start to prepare ourselves to best serve those students? What that looks like is maybe we do a packaging of course, scheduling, which means that you take two, which is six credits in most cases. And that, for us is good, because it also makes sure that the students are eligible for financial aid. We also look at the data to determine which two classes are best paired together. Not all classes work well together. Just an observation. There haven't been an advisor. I know that you can put some things together, and we think it looks really good, but the student goes through the experience and they don't do well. And you look at the data, at the aggregate, and you see that it it really doesn't work well at all. So having course pairings that makes sense for the lives of our students, but also ensure they have a taste of success. Students have to have a taste of success, especially your first year, your first gen learners, they have to have that taste. Otherwise, it in some ways, takes them to a place where they don't feel like they belong there, and it solidifies maybe some negative messaging that they may have received, especially for first gen learners about college, isn't for you. You know, go do something else. You need to just work. And so it opens a door that I don't think is necessarily intentional when students don't have that success. So that course pairing is critical. Support services is another one, and advising is key to that. I cannot over emphasize the role of an advisor, absolutely. Oh, my goodness, it's huge, but also some of the programming that goes along with that ensuring that our students are able to get involved in some capacity and not miss out on those opportunities.

Kevin Thomas  
You know what I think you're talking about, though, too, is so critical, and I think this is where your lens from advising is so helpful to it like you're talking the wide range view or the umbrella of service and expertise and aspect of success at your institution. And this is what advisors are doing in their jobs every day, in a very one on one or one on their caseload type of basis, right? To where it's like, you'll hear people say, well, the curriculum is the curriculum, and that may be true, right? But there are certain courses that make sense to go together, and our advisors see that success happens when they are that way. And so then the curriculum can change, and it can adjust, and it can build differently, but that's what you're talking about from a service component. And so I think it's helpful to really acknowledge that what you're talking about from the greater service is what advisors do every day with the multiple puzzle pieces they're trying to put together to really serve their students and serve the institution. Well, I appreciate that insight 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
And I think the other the flip side of that is that operationally, for the institution, it creates a level of efficiency for us. Because when you have, for example, an educational plan for a student that goes to span for us, it would be four years minimum, because if they're going part time, it's going to take them a little bit longer to complete that credential. It gives us an idea of what courses we should be offering and what way, modality wise, but then also at what point in a semester or a term we should be offering those classes. I think that's the other part of the operational. Piece of it is that it allows the organization to be more efficient, but also taking a deeper dive into how we're offering classes when we're offering classes and we're not inflating a schedule and then trying to reduce industries or trying to find new classes. So there's some different ways by which to do that.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I think when I talk to people who work at community colleges, right? I've never worked at a community college. It's that holistic. What did you say? Chrissy,

Chrissy Davis Jones  
I said, bless you. Come on over. It's welcome everyone here.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It's one of the things I think community colleges do really well, that holistic and integrated approach right, to student access. Not it's understanding advising, but it's it's understanding the student, right? You have to understand the student when you're at a community college, and the complexities, I think, of the types of students that you're working with, just require it, or else you're not going to be as successful.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Absolutely, you wanted to present correct on that, recognizing not only that, we want our institution to operate well, but we want our students to be successful, because their win is our way. Yeah, what? Our students don't win. We do not win. So we talk about a pickup meeting. I think about a pickup game like you're going to select the best people to be on your team, right? Even it's dodge ball back in elementary school, like, I won't, I won't. Kevin, okay, Brody wants such and such. We're trying to win. And so for us, our students, winning is us winning because they become our greatest ambassadors for the institution, for hack and saying, HACC, yeah, I earned my credential. Let me tell you why you should go here. So those are the pieces that we want to think about in terms of a holistic experience for our students, is when they win, we win. And by them winning, our community win, because we are the community's college. You have to think about it from that in the economic lens as well, because our students stay in our communities. So they are our neighbors, they are our friends. They are people who maybe worship in the same places that we do. So when something doesn't go right, they know where you live right. Want to make sure that you're treating them well.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Before I ask the next question, we need to ask Kevin. Kevin, what was it like being picked last in grade school and all the games that you you played, like, what was that? What was that like?

Kevin Thomas  
Listen, there's a reason why everybody loves the underdog, and I was glad to represent that every time, every time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Today, I feel like I was mean. That was kind of mean, Kevin.

Kevin Thomas  
You're feisty today. Well, hold on before you go to the next question, Chrissy, your answer that you just gave, right? This is gonna be a fun little topic. We're gonna switch here for just for a minute, you know? So we introduced you as vice president. Chrissy Davis Jones, listen, that was a very presidential answer, like, Are there aspirations for President Chrissy Davis Jones?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
I'm just saying, when the calling is on you, the calling is on you. It's not a job that people are aspired to. Let's just be real about especially now, there's a lot of pressure on higher ed presidents, and there's a lot of things you have to get done well, and people are looking to you for some tough decisions and some some love, right? Sometimes it's just love. And so I always say the calling hasn't stopped, in spite of all of the noise and all of the movement that's happened over the last few years. So I'm like, okay, it must be real, because it has not shifted.

Kevin Thomas  
Very good, alright, Brody, you can go to your average question now.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, I just would say, in this room right here, I clearly would be the last person picked to be a president. So I'll make fun of my own stuff here. I'll just keep serving. 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
That's the job of the president is to serve. Don't get it twisted. You serve your people. That's the role of a president is to serve.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So so Chrissy, I know we haven't talked about data or evidence, but obviously, in your work that matters a lot. You've served as a peer credit accreditation evaluator. You've worked with assessment capacity building. How do you build a culture of using data meaningfully, not just collecting metrics, but acting on it? 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Part of what we've done, and I've done it at previous institutions as well. Let's create this data literacy culture, because most of us are familiar with numbers. Overall, people are afraid of numbers. It's when we say, well, what are the numbers telling us? That's where people get a little apprehensive. And I think it's part of it is very real, right? So part of it is, I'm not quite sure how to take these numbers and turn it into insight, to turn it into action? Yeah, the other half of that fear is, am I going to lose my job? So I tell people, you know, we use data as a flashlight, not a hammer. Those are two different things, right? So we want to flash the light on those areas in which we can make enhancements to a business process, or we're realizing that what we designed 20 years ago is not working for this new generation of students that we desire to serve. So the data is part of it, but the storytelling that comes with the data, which is why data literacy is so important, is why we want to make sure that we're educating all colleagues, and so we built a curriculum around it, and we actually have what we call a data team. So it's not just IR, but we have a group of colleagues who are working together to really implement this curriculum around data literacy, how to interpret the data, how to move from insights to action, how to read those dashboards. Do I have the right filters on? Because we could obviously get the same data set and get something totally different, because we don't realize what data are not in the set and what data are in the set.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Gosh, I love that so much. Right? The idea of a collective responsibility of using the data well is really a great concept, and I'm putting that into my little, my little head of mine, right, and starting to think about how that can work within my own unit right at this moment. That is a fantastic response.

Kevin Thomas  
In the storytelling part of things, I think, is such a powerful thing that not just in. Administrators, but administrators practitioners, front level folks that are meeting with students every day, like forget about how effective they can be, and need to be within that. And I use this example in Chrissy, I think we've had this conversation before of saying Brody went to college, and then the next sentence is, Brody graduated college, you're telling a terrible story. Yeah, right, because the journey that occurs is not just data points. I mean, they are like, Brody went to tutoring to get successful in a certain course, or Brody took these classes, or he explored a little, right, those aspects that are there. But I think folks forget about the storytelling and that this work that we do is a journey and isn't just point A to point B. There's a lot that happens between point A and point B.

Speaker 1  
C, D and F, and maybe a Q may have fell between A and B. That's right. Be clear. It may not be a, b, c, d, like the way we learned it. It may be a, Q, R, S, l, B, yeah. Back over the I like it. It doesn't necessarily. The journey is, is the fun? If I can say that the journey is the fun, even as scary as it may feel in that moment, the journey is the fun. So even in an advising session, students have a lot of data that they may not even be aware that they are literally walking around with their GPA how they're moving through a semester. So when an advisor does a check in in the middle of the term is not necessarily to say that you're doing bad, bad or good, good, but let's talk about what you're experiencing right now, getting to some of that, that feeling pieces, and then unpack that with the student by way of how they may be performing in a class. Because sometime it may not be anything that's happening in the classroom. It may be something that's happening outside with their family, especially if they're in a traditional residential hall for our students, it may be that they their kid is sick, they're getting called into work on a day off, and they're trying to plan and study for an exam that's going to happen. Those are all data points, and it's a story that's connecting the dots with the students. Okay, let's, let's break this down in terms of time management. That may even be like a numerical way to express it to a student. So those are pieces of, again, the journey that in the moment may not seem as fun, but once you get through it, you're like, Oh my gosh. Why was I hyperventilating over that like this too will pass, and I will have a greater narrative to share with someone else.

Kevin Thomas  
And I think as institutions, we're guilty of this that we design things to be a through z and to do it in A through Z order, and that's just not the way this works anymore. Our students are so diverse and so complicated and so unique that that A to Z just doesn't happen. And so I think that story and the data behind it is really powerful. So thanks for sharing that. Christy, so I'm sitting here looking at what you're doing at HACC and the career that you've had, like you said, you're not doing this on your own, you're not doing this in a silo. You've got great people and leaders and coaches and advisors you work with. So when you're sitting in your chair, what are the things that you look for to enhance your team, to grow you stronger?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
I've learned how to step out of the way, and that was a big for me. I coming up through the ranks, you know, you you were, I was behind the scenes. I told people I wasn't even on the front lines. I was literally behind the scenes before I got on the front line. Like, like, that was a promotion, right? So let's just be clear, I moved from back there to up here. I'm like, that's a progress. I've learned many things about the profession over time, and so I had to learn how to get out of the way, but cast the vision in terms of expectations and allow people to be creative in designing the how. So my job as their VP is to provide the resources, tell them the why and the what, and here's where the anticipated end goal is. Their work as experts in on the front line and middle management is to figure out the how, how we're going to get from Harrisburg to St Louis. Are we all going to go on different modes of transportation, because, see, that's not my role. My role to provide the resources. If it's like, you know, we gotta have a professional development right? But they've done really well at that, and I had to learn how to let go and trust them in that process again, because the same way our students are on a journey, our professionals are on a journey too. So it's not my job. To pull them unless there's a need for a little bit of pulling or a little bit of push, but to allow them to have the creative space and then provide the feedback to ensure that it's in alignment with where we're going as an institution, or where we're going in the profession. Because I'm still very connected to NACADA and the advising profession, even though I don't advise daily in terms of students, but I do advise professionals, is how I see it. I'm also very engaged in other professions. I'm constantly looking into where the field is heading in higher education in general, and what are some of the implications. So getting out of the way has been one of the biggest pieces, but knowing when to stand in and stand up.

Kevin Thomas  
You know, you mentioned the aspect of your associate or your connection to NACADA and Brody and I have had this conversation as administrators. I think we've had these conversations of sessions that we go to at the annual conference, and connections we make, because there are a lot of topics that are really, really based in that front line, front role with advisors. But I have to say, you know, what you're talking about is the fact that there are applicable things in the work that advisors do, that we go hear about these conferences that we attend. You know, I'm reflecting on last week and going to a session on burnout that will stick with me for quite some time. That's going to make me better as a supervisor, but was really made for advisors that have 450-500 students on their caseload and the burnout they're feeling, and you have to take it and twist it in a different way. And so I think some of those conversations about is NACADA for the upper level administrator, if you think about it, right, right? Like I think that that's where I've gotten to, is you have to be able to say, oh, I can take a little piece from this session, a little piece from that session, and feel better about how I'm doing my job. But not necessarily. It has to be. I'm talking to you senior level administrator, and this is exactly what you should do in your job. It just doesn't work that way.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Appkying it to the role is really helpful, right? You have to be able to scale what you're learning into your specific space. No, no doubt about that.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
And at this point in my career, I'm really encouraging my advisors and their leadership to submit proposals, right? Because I can see the work, and I'm again engaged in that from the profession, and say, Ooh, I don't think they quite hit that yet. Go submit it and see what's going to happen. So my job is to encourage them, and I think they've grown to trust me, to say, Could you look this over for me? Does this make sense? You know, we know you into advising, so you'll know or you're into this. Could you look at it? And so I think that level of trust, then recognizing, okay, our VP, she's our VP, but she also have a level of expertise. And so they try to tap into that. I would say, you know, it's hard to be a prophet in your own backyard. People just see you like my son only sees me as mom. You know, he hears people say, Doctor, Chrissy, but it's like he has no it's like, what do you do? Doctor, you don't go to the hospital. So what do you what doctor are you? Right? And so I think about it that way, like they see me as Chrissy. And so when they ask me, I'm like, okay, they see and know that I have a little expertise that may be able to help help them, but also help the institution that's really going to help support our students.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, I know this is something that we don't do enough in higher education, and I think you'll have a really good answer for this, at least, that's my hope. But you know, how do we celebrate student success and build pride among faculty, staff and students, when good things do happen, like, what does that celebration look like on your campus?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Yo, so we have a lot of fun, right? So I love it. We have to have some fun. So we have, I'll give a great example. So we have this cross functional college wide team called Hawk soar. And within Hawk soar, we have a student success working group, we have a data work group, and we have a professional development work group, and while they're all working on things that have impact to shift and move us forward in that respected area, we come together and we're like, oh, that data conversation impacts professional development. How do we make sure that everyone at the college does this professional development related to data? The Student Success work group, for example, they did the research. And now we have a college wide definition for student success like it didn't exist. We have it, and we are operationalizing and now using data. So what we decided to do is that we're going to celebrate that. And so we have our kind of quarterly or semesterly celebrations, but this time, we're going to give them a gift. So it's one thing to say thank you. It's one thing to write a handwritten note, which I've been known to do, and say, Thank you for presenting. Thank you for sharing. But we're going to give them wings, because we're the Hawks. And so one of our faculty said. Chrissy, I can't be a part of the work group, but I want to, I want to have, I want to contribute. And they're into our arts program, so he's going to make some wings for those who are involved, and give him a pen, and then we're going to give him a lanyard and some other cool stuff, because we want them to know that the work that they're doing is making a difference, and it has, we send it in the data, but we're also hearing it from students, and so we really want to celebrate them.

Kevin Thomas  
I love it. All right, so you, you got through all the the work related questions, now we're gonna, we're gonna get to know Chrissy a little bit better here. What's something most people wouldn't know about you? Do you have, like, a hidden talent, a quirky habit, something surprising.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
So I would say one thing people don't know about me, that is, it's hilarious. I ran in the international pancake race. So I I run. I love to run. I still run to this day. And so one year when I was living in Liberal Kansas, I was working at the community college there, they said, Oh, we have this thing called the pancake race, and we race against little it's a pancake. It's on Pancake Day. And you race against a team over in England, and they have the thing that we try to beat each other so that you gotta run with an apron on a skillet, in your hand, a pancake in the skillet, a hair tie on That's right, all the things, and it's about a 400 meter race. You gotta cross with the skillet in hand and at least a piece of the pancake in your skillet. Okay, so first year out, I was like, I'm gonna win. I knew I was going to wear like, I knew I was going to win, and I was winning, and so I got, like, this close to the finish line, and I fell, oh no, busting my whole cheering up, cheering for me, yay. Oh, this breakup. So you gotta google it. It's hilarious. I laugh at it now because I was, like, I knew I was going to wear until I busted that face and like, wasn't cute. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
There's managers waiting on this?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
It was on the news and everything, like an embarrassing moment. And I was a young professional, you know, I'm in like, my early 20s out there cheering for me. Oh no, at the literally, literally this, this. The finish line is right here. This is me. I fell.

Kevin Thomas  
Oh boy. At the finish of this race, when you don't fall, are there pancakes this? This has to be...

Chrissy Davis Jones  
There's a trophy of medals and all types of things. So, yeah, that that was, that was the thing.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, this makes me think, like, there's no way I'm going to be fast anymore. But like, I mean, they have those races where you eat donuts and run a mile, like, they have those races where you drink beer and run a mile, like, Kevin, I've been doing the wrong things, integrating my food love with my running love, and now maybe I could be the fastest that, right? 

Kevin Thomas  
LIke listen, if they start having waffle races and like, the pizza run like, We're gonna win, right? I am way more tied to this adventure as it is, right now, it's like run because you're gonna get a medal. I'm good.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, you're going to Gatlinburg here soon. You sometimes have those bears at your house, and I know you're not supposed to run from bears, but...

Kevin Thomas  
I'd run from a bear.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
No, just lay down. Just lay down. Play dead, play dead.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
At the end of the race, right, right, chasing after you, yeah? So, Chrissy, when you actually have a free weekend and it's just for you not work, what does a perfect weekend look like for you?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Oh, okay, one, Imma get up early and I'm going running. I'm going to run, I'm going to run, I'm going to run, um, then I'm going to clean up, because that is so fun for me. Like I'm I'm getting all the little nooks and crannies, I'm that person, and and I'm going to hang with my son and have fun. And my husband, my husband, my son, is doing martial arts. I'm a little rusty. It's been about 30 years since I did the martial arts, so I'm teaching him all the things. And, oh, that's great fun. Yeah, family time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's wonderful. You got one Kev, I can ask another one.

Kevin Thomas  
Fire away. I got too busy googling international I couldn't get to mute quick enough. Chrissy, did this really? This? This? This fall just happened in like 2025.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
2003, 2004 Yeah, it's been a while. I'm gonna text it to you. Because I was laughing just the other week. I said, Oh my god, I can't believe this still exists.

Kevin Thomas  
I lost all focus. All right, we're moving into the lightning round, because I don't even know where else to go with this. Okay, do you have a go to song or energy pickup before you have a kickboxing session?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Anything, probably some 50 Cent, like something that's going to give me all extra hype. Old school 50, they're like, not, not this new school.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Coffee, tea, or soda, Chrissy?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Coffee, water, Red Bull. 

Kevin Thomas  
What is one superpower you'd love to have. 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Gotta really think about that. That's deep. I gotta choose the right one.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I like how we're just tossing away. Think, nope, that one's not good enough. Invisibility. That's for amateurs.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
That's like, fast, okay, no, not good enough. I don't know, I don't. Probably want all the things it, just miss it, mix it up, like gumbo, like all the things.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I love it. So speaking of gumbo, right? Like, do you have a favorite meal or a guilty fast food pleasure, Chrissy?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
My favorite? This is going to sound so corny, but it's true. I love Brussels sprouts, pomegranate like, who is walking around with pomegranate seeds that would be me, that would be be me, and apples and apples. 

Kevin Thomas  
On an episode previous, right, we asked this question to Todd Burrell, and he said salmon and Brody had a reaction that could only be said is sickening, and I'm telling you that there's only one food that I have stopped on the side of the road to throw out, and it was brussels sprouts. My mom ordered brussels sprouts, and she's like, would you take these home, put them in the fridge about halfway home, over on the side the interstate and toss those things out, and then just kept driving. That was the nastiest. Like Christy, we were friends, and it has fallen apart. 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
They didn't make them right. If you didn't make it right.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm telling you, Kevin, there's a place in Evansville called Samuels, best, best burger ever, and they make this big bowl of like, buttered and garlic and peppered brussels sprouts. And I didn't think I like Brussels sprouts either, but it was fantastic.

Kevin Thomas  
It's hashtag, nope. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, do you have a movie or TV series you could re watch endlessly?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Could probably be Scandal. Like, I love the Leopold, like, I'm here. That would be me. 

Kevin Thomas  
Do you still have something that's on your bucket list that you haven't done?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
A whole lot more traveling? Yeah, a whole lot more traveling to the safari in Africa and Australia. Like, there's places I want to go.

Kevin Thomas  
So what's one of the best places you visited recently?

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Not Las Vegas.

Kevin Thomas  
Not Las Vegas. Amen to that. 

Chrissy Davis Jones  
So, anywhere but there. And then I have to turn around and go back there, like a couple days. I'm like, No.

Kevin Thomas  
I will say Vegas highlight is going to see the Wizard of Oz at the Sphere.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Maybe, maybe I'll like it if I go do that. Okay...

Kevin Thomas  
It was wonderful in, in every way.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, totally agree. Massively impressed. I didn't think I was going to be impressed. Are you an early bird or a night out?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, early bird. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm gonna get up early to go run.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, that's the way it's gotta be best feeling.

Kevin Thomas  
We've hit our end, Brody?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Chrissy, it was so good to see you. 

Kevin Thomas  
I'm so sorry we didn't get to connect last week, but my goodness, it was so great to have you on every time we have an opportunity to interact. I'm learning from you, and so I appreciate all you're doing for the profession and all you're doing for your world and all those that you're impacting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chrissy Davis Jones  
Thank you guys. I appreciate the time, and remember, number 10 is good. It's all about perfection and new beginnings. So blessings on your new beginning as you enter into Episode 11.

Kevin Thomas  
Oh, thank you, Chrissy. How did we that was applause. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Matt Markin, he did that. Gosh dang. 

Kevin Thomas  
Taylor Swift hits and applause. That's fantastic. We're hitting new ages here.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Wonderful, wonderful production. Now that we've hit episode 10. He's, he's, he's holding it, he's like, he's like, I'm not using the good stuff until they get to Episode 10.

Kevin Thomas  
My dad says we need to record a sound bite for, or something like a sounder for, for, every time we get to the lightning round, there's like, lightning round, you know, like, but we just need to have it ready. And now we have applause. You never know what's going to occur.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, we can't call it the thunder round, because the lightning leads to the thunder. Because I was thinking, like, maybe a big storm, or something like that. He needs to put, like a lightning, he needs it like on the video, could just put, like a big lightning strike right through both of us.

Kevin Thomas  
I am also amazed. This is going back to the beginning of the show. We number of people listening and hearing conversations, and people coming up to us and saying, you know, we enjoy the show. Also the number of people that are watching us on on YouTube. You know, I think about the people that are listening, because I typically listen, but people are like, Oh, your nonverbals and your facial expressions are so great. And I'm like, Oh, crap, I forgot the people are listening in that way or watching in that way.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I used to put the questions in front of the video, and I can't do that anymore.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, that doesn't, does not work.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Now that I'm looking at you, it does feel like we're in the same room, like we can both give each other the side eye, and it's like we're looking through the screen, like, what are you doing, Kevin?

Kevin Thomas  
This is what happens when we record on a Monday. It's all over the place.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is really great.

Kevin Thomas  
You don't have a funny thing for Monday that you have for Friday?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, every day, every day is good, just like Chrissy said, like, it's all it's all a good day. I like Fridays, but I like Mondays too. I'm not an anti Monday guy.

Kevin Thomas  
Well, listen, before we just skip past it, Chrissy was fantastic. Oh, amazing. And I think you know, knowing her for the years that I have, which is, it's only the last five years that we've we've come to work together. What she does with data and storytelling is second to none. She really does connect the dots, and connects the dots in a way that the staff that she works with can be effective, but that the students that they're serving will see the greatest success, and that is the greatest praise that you can give an administrator in the work that you're doing, that the things that you're doing in that way are impacting students in their journey and their success. Yeah, she's sharp as nails. I've worked with her a couple times on program reviews. Man, I need another program review with Chrissy Davis Jones too. But the other thing that I really like is she just cuts to the quick. Man, like she gets at it right. And I just love that kind of straightforward approach and and framing it all under the guise of students and that holistic process. I love that. You know when in her role, right, tying that enrollment piece to the retention piece is so critical, and you understand that in your spot, and I work really closely with our admissions folks here at Illinois State, right? It all is connected, and she did a great job of kind of showing us and telling us how that's happening at her institution, yeah, just God, I'm taking so much from that. Yeah, she's fantastic. All right, so we're to the point which we're going to do our three things. Yeah, I didn't, and we had a conversation about what that would be. And there were some options, yeah, but, but we, we settled on things you unnecessarily buy. And so three things, top. Three things, three things you're thinking of that you unnecessarily buy. I have my three.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, I mean records is by far the number one thing.

Kevin Thomas  
I figured that records was your number one.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is, I just buy way too many records.

Kevin Thomas  
For our audio listeners, my number one would be the lapel pins. And it's not a huge cost, right? You're talking anywhere between five to $15 depending on the pin. But for our visual audience, you can see the host of lapel pins there behind me. And in that collection has approached, I would say between six or 700 lapel pins at this point, so unnecessary buy, but I really do enjoy them.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And then I would just say my second thing, I'm kind of a shoes hound, right? Like, I buy a lot of sneakers that I probably don't need. I didn't know this about you. I mean, I'm addicted to all birds right now. And anytime they have a sale, I just buy them because I can wear them to work. I can wear them to concerts. I can wear them out and about. They're they don't look like running shoes, so they're good. And. Buy a ton of running shoes too, if I don't need that many running shoes. But so that's maybe the second thing.

Kevin Thomas  
So I think my second is I like the gear of the teams or things that I support. Oh, right. So, like, I have only been a Vikings fan for a couple years. That's a story for a different day, but I have more Vikings clothes than I should ever have, right? Like, I could wear Vikings gear every day of the week and then into the next week and not duplicate anything. But even beyond that, you know, like F1 you know, like looking for Red Bull stuff, Cardinals jerseys, just things that I enjoy. Like, and here's the thing. I don't know when I would wear half of this stuff, but I buy it like it's going out of style. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
My last thing is pretty easy, and Catherine is sometimes not helpful here. But we eat out way too much. I buy way too much. I mean, I'm not a very good cook. I mean, there are a couple things that I can do. Catherine's a serviceable cook, and she likes doing it from time to time. But you know, when you were raising kids and you really busy and doing all that travel, God, we spend so much money on going out to eat.

Kevin Thomas  
So my number three is like unnecessarily by makes me want to define what unnecessary really means in this but there are several times during a month timeframe where I will go have a salad at a restaurant, and after having said salad, I'll say, Well, you know, I think I'll walk over to cassie's cookies here in Conway, Arkansas, and pick up some delicious cookies to take home For the week. Yeah, and that's a i There's no need to do it, but those cookies are going to be the end of me. They are fantastic in every way. And I get too many, right? They have a cosmic brownie cookie that is just absurd. Brody, if you ever come to Conway, just like when I went to Evansville, you said, Oh, you've got to eat at these places. Yes, we're getting some cassie's cookies. With the sweet tooth is going to feel pretty good.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm looking forward to that. Like, I love a good cookie. No question, what's your what's your go to there?

Kevin Thomas  
Oh, for sure, the cosmic cookie, like, it tastes like that cosmic brownie that I used to get at my granddad's gas station growing up, and so it's like it's a taste that's so good, so rich, so chocolatey, but it's also reminds me of growing up and going to the gas station by my grandpa's house in coderville, Illinois, like it just is. It's a tremendous memory, every time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I have plenty we need to come back to cookies, because I have lots of thoughts about cookies, for sure, but it's our time's up, really, right? I mean, so All right, folks, that's it for this edition of the pickup meeting. We hope your own meetings, formal or pickup style, are as meaningful and as fun as this one. So until next time, do good and be nice.