Ep. 6 - Jenny Bloom, Florida Atlantic University

Get ready for a feel-good episode packed with wisdom, laughter, and a few surprise concert stories! 🎶 Brody and Kevin kick things off with their favorite music memories before welcoming the incredible Dr. Jenny Bloom from Florida Atlantic University, a true legend in higher education and co-founder of Appreciative Advising. From her unexpected journey into creating a global advising framework to her daily five-mile runs and porch-hour playlists, Jenny shares insights on connection, purpose, and the power of asking the right questions.

Whether you’re a seasoned advisor or just love great storytelling, this episode will leave you inspired to put people before process—and maybe even lace up your running shoes. 🏃‍♀️✨

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go. Welcome to the pickup meeting. Here we are. Brody, I have to say, you know, as we get started today and the intro music is guiding us in. We've heard so many people that really love the music on the intro. That was all you, my man.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It was kind of funky, right? Nice little groove there. You can just bob your head to it. Get get into the show. Get kind of emotionally ready. I love it.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, and we have an exciting show today, so we you know, we were talking just music there. And I really feel like you're a big music guy, like, it's your thing,

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
it's one of my things. I got lots of things, but it is definitely one of my big things. But you love music too, Kevin,

Kevin Thomas  
I do all kinds of things. I'm excited just to talk about that a little bit. But, you know, it's one of those where I'm not a big concert person and you're a massive concert person. Yes, I probably have not been to more than 15 in my life, and I think you went to 15 last week.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I think I've been to over 100 concerts in my life. Certainly no question. So we were talking about this the other day, like I asked you when we started to have this conversation. Like, what was the first concert you ever went to? And I loved hearing what you said.

Kevin Thomas  
First concert ever was Weird Al Yankovic at Six Flags in St Louis, and I couldn't even tell you what he was there for. But, like, there was an area where they did concerts or shows and went back there, and it was fantastic. There were so many wardrobe changes in a Weird Al concert. I was kind of blown away, because he he does all those skits and different things that he would have done back in the day, and do outfit changes and get on the costume for various songs that he's made hits of his over the years. So like Madonna Taylor Swift, like, Yeah, Michael Jackson, you know, he got on the suit for what is it? Fat? Was this his song? You know? What was your first concert?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Billy Joel, Market Square Arena, 1989.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, it was great. It's hard to go along with Billy Joel, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, we loved it. I'm so glad to have seen him live. I've not seen the documentary. It's on HBO. I don't have HBO yet, but I've heard just amazing things. I'm looking forward to digging into that. So then we kind of asked ourselves, like, we know the first concert, what? What's the best concert you've ever been to?

Kevin Thomas  
Oh, easily for me is, is Garth Brooks. Easily, it was at the Dome in St Louis. Was on the floor, and, you know, I'm not a big concert person, and when the notes started playing for some of his songs that started the show, it wasn't like I was crying. It's just that my eyes wouldn't stop leaking. It wasn't like that wasn't the emotion that was happening, but it was just so much smiling and all of a sudden, just like crying and it couldn't I just couldn't stop what about you?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I saw Guster at Red Rocks. My wife and I, our favorite American band is Guster. They're kind of a they have a cult following, but they played red rocks in 2021 like during that month when the pandemic kind of just ended. And we all thought covid was over. So everybody was extra happy. It was so great. Just a great community. They sold out and I cried. I mean, I did cry. I mean, when come downstairs and say hello, came on. It was just, it was amazing. But I've seen so many, it's hard to just pick one, right? I saw you two play the Joshua Tree. Live in Louisville. An airplane came right over this the stadium right as where the streets have no name, was kind of hitting its climactic point. That was pretty amazing. So I've seen a lot of great shows, anything at the Ryman. Boy, I've been at the Ryman three or four times in Nashville. Such an amazing venue. The sound is always great. There, so Keen. There, I've seen Phoenix there. Gosh, so many great shows. We can talk about that forever. That's not what this show is about, though, Kevin, you don't want to talk about all the shows you've been to. No, that wouldn't be fair to our listeners.

Kevin Thomas  
Or to my ears. Yes, agree. Both of those things are true. You know, the other thing that I we do not have a commonality on this. I have an appreciation for concerts, but I will say I find myself saying I'd rather just hear it on the radio or on my headphones or whatever, right? Like, fair enough, it's not I've literally walked out in a Dave Matthews concert, right? Yeah, it just Good gosh, man. People that just like to hear himself play the same note over and over again. But I like Dave. I like Dave songs. Just please never make me go to a concert again, you know. So it's like we have some commonality on the music side, but it's the fall and I'm a fantasy football guy and. You are not, no, it is stupid. It's not stupid. It's it is a time. What's your issue?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Football is real, like it's hard enough to care about football if you like football, and then it's even harder if your fantasy football guy is, say, for example, Edgerrin James, which I think I played fantasy football maybe two years. And Edgerinn James was my running back one year, and it was the year he had almost 2000 yards total offense, but he scored like four touchdowns, it felt like so, you know, he 200 total yards, no touchdown, so you lose every week. Like, that's dumb he was. So he was so valuable to the team, and all I was worried about was whether or not he scored a touchdown. Like, that's not the way I can watch football. It's just not the way.

Kevin Thomas  
I have so much fun with it. And here's the other thing, and I don't hide this, I'm fairly good at it, you know, I play, I've won, I've won some money, and just have a good time with it and play with various groups from life. And it's a great time. But it got me to thinking about, what are the things that you would secretly be amazing at if you tried?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, first off, let me just tell you, I want to come back to fantasy football for one thing, I've I held this joke, right? Fantasy Football, for me, is the dolphins being good every year. Like, that's a fantasy football dream.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah? And listen, that's just not going to happen. The Dolphins are terrible.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
They're always terrible. Okay, so one thing I'd be good at. We were talking about this the other day on the phone, secretly, good at if we tried, yeah, I think I would be a really good karaoke singer.

Kevin Thomas  
But you've tried this, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Like, they do contests and stuff, like you can go every week. I mean, I've done karaoke. I mean, I think I would be really, really good at it if I, if I really tried.

Kevin Thomas  
And your go to song is like, let me just guess is, is like, John Cougar, Mallen camp, I've done one of those. Yeah, yeah. I feel like, last time we were in Vegas, I might have heard you sing Little Jack and Diane, maybe.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, Rocket Man is another one. I really like Mr. Brightside, if you're trying to get the crowd going.

Kevin Thomas  
Mr. Brightside, apparently, does it. I've not done that one. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm the whitest guy there ever was, I think, but I named those three songs. Well, what would be the thing that you would do? Kevin, like, what would you be really good at?

Kevin Thomas  
So when I was in college, I was a writer for the murray state news when I was on staff there, and then I've done various writing since then. And so I always say maybe writing would be fun for like sports and publications and websites and things of that nature. But I think my lean in this moment is I would love to be involved in like the GM aspects of like professional sports. Oh, right, sounds super fun. That would be a lot of fun. I wonder if I'd get burned out on it, but I think it'd be a lot of fun. It's a lot of nuts and bolts, and looking at multiple layers. And kind of similar to my world right now, where I'm looking at all the things, at all the times, but just in a different way, with, with something that I really enjoy outside of my job in higher education, with, with sports. So that I think I'd go with, it's way less fun than your karaoke thing, but I think it would be a good time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I think you'd be good at it. I mean, we're all legends in our own mind when we're trying to manage our our favorite teams as fans, I think you'd, you'd get good at it.

Kevin Thomas  
I'll tell you this. I think that if I was hired as a GM right now, I could not do worse than what the dolphins are already. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You're, you're making my fantasy football dreams go sour. Now it's a nightmare.

Kevin Thomas  
Kevin, if they'd only hire me. That's true. That's but that's not what folks are here for. We just lost seven audience members because they're like, Oh, they're talking about junk again.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, yeah. Let's redeem ourselves. Let's, let's do that.

Kevin Thomas  
Let's bring on our guest today, and and really, let's bring on this wonderful guest we have today. We have Dr. Jenny Bloom, professor at Florida Atlantic University, co founder of appreciative advising, pioneering voice in our field. Just in an amazing professional, a wonderful friend. Jenny Bloom, welcome to the show.

Jenny Bloom  
Hello friends. How are you? 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So happy to have you on the show. 

Jenny Bloom  
Well, I want to start by saying, Brody, I am on Team Brody in terms of the concert versus listening on headphones. Come on my first concert, which will date me. I was about 10 years old, and I was out in Los Angel. List, visiting my aunt and uncle and my grandparents, and they took me. My aunt took me to Tom Jones at the Hollywood theater, and it was amazing. And and I'm so glad to hear that yours was Billy Joel, yeah, he's I, I've seen Billy Joel a number of times, including at Madison Square Garden. That was really special, before he ended his run there. So yeah, and here, we're going to Las Vegas next month. Yes. And so, yeah, I'm ready. I'm going to see, I've got Lionel Richie. Oh, yeah, he's going to be playing that Saturday night right before the the conference starts. So going to, going to do that, and then I'm also going to see the Wizard of Oz on on Sunday afternoon.

Kevin Thomas  
Oh, you're going to the Sphere.

Jenny Bloom  
Wow. Yeah. Have you been to the sphere yet? 

Kevin Thomas  
But what they've done sounds amazing.

Jenny Bloom  
I've, I've been there twice. I have seen, I saw you two on their last night there. I also saw Kenny Chesney earlier this summer. So it's, it will, it will forever spoil you from any other concert venue. Is it's, it's unbelievable, you Words cannot describe it. So I hope you all get over there to the sphere, at least for the Wizard of Oz.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, Brody, can you name a Kenny Chesney song.

Jenny Bloom  
You know, I would, I mean when I say this, I'm serious, I would go see any performer at the sphere. It is that amazing. And I am not a big Kenny Chesney fan, but I was just speaking to one of my former students this morning, Jesse Ford, and he mentioned a Kenny Chesney song that really stuck with me, which is, Don't blink. Oh, just about how quickly life goes by. And that's kind of because for me, of course, you're you're at my alma mater, Illinois State University. And so it just seems like I blinked. And, you know, here I am at Florida Atlantic University. But it just seems like yesterday I was an undergraduate at ISU.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And I love how you end every email with me. Go Red Birds.

Jenny Bloom  
It makes me very happy to have you there, because Illinois State will always have, you know a near and dear place in my heart, and just to know that you're there and doing important work, leading, advising. I can't even tell you how happy that makes me. So thank you for choosing ISU.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that's That's amazing.

Kevin Thomas  
You know, Jenny, I think a lot of times when folks get an opportunity to interact, we hear a lot about appreciative advising as it is today or as they'll use it in their lives and in their work. What was the original spark there with appreciative advising, like was there a moment or a conversation that the seed was just planted, and all of a sudden it went from a, well, that's neat to this is going to be my life's work.

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, I certainly did not expect that, by the way. Yeah, it all kind of came together. And in kind of a moment, I would say it was in 1999 I got to attend an American Council on Education, women's leadership event, and I had no business being there, by the way. I got there through a fluke. The former president of the University of Illinois. Stan Ikenberry became the president of Ace. And I had heard about this women's forum through an ISU connection that I made up at Hamburger University in Chicago. And there was a woman, Susan Kern, who was the Vice President for Business Affairs there, and she gave this great talk at the American Council on Education Event. And I I spoke to her afterwards, because she had mentioned something about ace and this Women's Leadership Forum. And I said, you mentioned something about this Women's Leadership Forum, I've never heard of that. Can you tell me more? And she's like, oh, yeah, it's great. You know, they bring in all kinds of folks to come speak to women leaders. You get to do some mock interviews, that kind of thing. And I was like, Oh, great, you know, how would I learn more? And she's like, well, it's by invitation only. I'm like, oh, okay, no problem. And she's like, actually. So I will be happy to nominate you for this event. And I'm like, really? I mean, I just met her two minutes ago, and she's like, I'm serious. And so she said, Send me your resume and I'll submit it. And so I got to go. And it was at this ace event that I got to meet a woman, Nancy Martin, who was an executive search consultant, to pick me out of the crowd, basically, and gave me an opportunity to write a book about how to advance your career in higher education with her. And so then every six months after this, Nancy and I would go and do this training at these women's leadership forums for Ace and in 2002 I was teaching an academic advising class at the University of Illinois for the second time, and the first time I taught it I was, I don't know What I was, but I was naive. My students submit an article for publication. That was one of the assignments they had to do it. Now keep in mind, I had no Publications at the time. I had never submitted an article. So what the heck am I doing having them submit articles? But that was right about the time that the mentor started at Penn State, and so part of the reason I did it was because I knew if I had my students submit an article, that I would submit an article. And so I did. They did. We all got published. 2002 fast forward. This is the second time I'm teaching it. I'm like, well, we all got published last time. Why not do this again. And so I was like, Well, you know, I have an article now, but you know, if I'm going to have these students do, they're going to have as many articles as I do by the end of this class if I don't write something. But I didn't know what I was going to write about. So back to ace Nancy and I are there talking about this values based approach to advancing your career in higher ed administration. And after the presentation, it was in June, somebody came up to us and said, Is this appreciative inquiry? Didn't know what Appreciative Inquiry was. Nancy didn't know what it was. So Nancy and I went back to her place on Nantucket, and we spent all weekend looking up what is appreciative inquiry. It's at that time where I'm looking for a topic for this second article. And I was like, you know, gosh, the more I was learning about Appreciative Inquiry, the more I realized this is what I'm actually doing in my advising. I'm like, What the heck? Let's just write this article. We called it, incorporating appreciative inquiry into academic advising, and it did. It changed my life, in my career, everything, and I so did not expect that. So that's kind of where it all kind of came together. But you know, certainly I had been working as a full time undergraduate advisor. I was a graduate student advisor when I was getting my master's degree at the University of Illinois, and all of those experiences came to the forefront in that article. So yeah, that's how we started.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You know, appreciative advising has been called a paradigm shift, and maybe how we view students. What? What would you want advisors? What would you want most advisors to know about it when they apply it in terms of understanding that concept?

Jenny Bloom  
You know, the paradigm shift I I think I have always looked at my work as as as an advisor, as a two way street. It is not just me giving advice that when I'm at my best as an advisor, I am learning so much from my students every time, and I think that's the paradigm shift, is that this is really a two way street, and that I as the advisor am really benefiting. And you know what? You look at some of the data that's out there, there's 60 million people who are lonely in this country. Yeah, one out of four people, and we as advisors, we get to engage in these amazing conversations with students, and we get paid to do it. Yeah, and I, I have learned so much from my students. You know, literally, just this morning, I'm talking to Jesse Ford, one of my students at the University of South Carolina, who's now on the faculty at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro, and he he just mentions this, this song about don't blink, that has really impacted me, and I cannot stop thinking. About that. So I have always looked at my work with students as a gift, and that it's an opportunity for me to learn, and I think that's with appreciative inquiry. You know, what alerted me to the power of questions was David Cooper writers work on Appreciative Inquiry, because when I was a young advisor, I thought my job was to have all of the answers. And through both David Cooper writers work and then just plunging deep into the literature about asking questions, I realized that yes, I've gotta have, you know, answers to basic questions. And no, nobody has all of the answers. But it really made me think about the questions that I ask, and yeah, and so taking an appreciative approach to asking those questions is, is powerful.

Kevin Thomas  
You know, Brody, it was, it was about a year ago that Jenny came to campus here at the University of Central Arkansas, and brought her in for a visit to spend time with the enrollment services and student success team here on campus. And so that's beyond advising as well, right? So like I have a I have an advising team that's 2022, people, and then folks from admissions and financial aid and registrar and one of the best parts of this experience was watching folks that have done the work that they've done in the field, whether it was from one year or 25 or 30 years, sit in this room and hear About Appreciative Inquiry, an appreciative approach, a different style, and you can just almost see the light bulb occur to them or go off at that moment of, oh, like, I do some of this, but I haven't thought about it in that way. Or, Oh, I do this, but I could enhance it in this way. And hearing them have those conversations, and hearing that regardless of where they're at in their profession, regardless of what they're doing, as far as the field, you, I think so often we think it's advising, and that's it, and it's like, no, no, that's not it, like it's so much more. It's a bigger world than that. And and I think the things you're talking about, Jenny that like that connection just in various areas, really does touch more people that they're able to digest this approach?

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, I think it's one of the unexpected things that has happened. I you know, when that article came out, I certainly did not expect that it would be adopted so broadly across higher education offices and divisions, and I have to, again, give a lot of credit to my master's degree students at the University of South Carolina, who I because I continued to have them write articles for publication as part of my classes that I taught, and I did not require them to write articles about appreciative advising. They got to choose their own topics, but many of them could see that, oh, what you're talking about in academic advising, that's actually what I'm doing in financial aid, that's actually what I'm doing in admissions. Really, it's the design phase that is different. You know, in financial aid versus admissions versus orientation, right? Like what the plan that we're co creating is going to have a different focus in these different offices, but sorry, you still have to get to know students. You know you have to understand that there is a power differential between us and our students, and that we need to be intentional about making them feel welcome. You still need to recognize that they've have a whole lifetime of experiences, and so asking a good discover question to get to know them and build that rapport, and then dream, you know, what are their dreams for the future? Then we can help them co-create a plan together, depending on what our area of expertise is. And, of course, then deliver the student goes out and delivers on the plan. And they're perfectly imperfect, just like we are, and so we help them learn from mistakes. And the don't settle phase is again, for for both us and for our students, this always trying to continue to get better. So, you know, I wish I could, you know, sit here and tell you, Oh yeah, no, I saw that, right? Not, I did not, but I'm grateful that to my students who did see that. And, yeah, it's pretty exciting to see how the literature base has really grown.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, and I think it's important too, especially when we think about like, the evolution of AI and. Students access to information. It really does get at the relational component of advising in such a structured but meaningful way that I think it is really a nice pathway to getting better at developing strong relationships with the folks that we work with in whatever area right? Like we've talked about Appreciative Inquiry, being able to work in almost any space, but even within advising, as I think, as advising evolves, right, this model, in many ways, to me, is helping meet the challenges of the next, the next decade and the next generation of advisors. 

Jenny Bloom  
I mean, I hope so. And I think you know, the the strength of it is that it's a framework, and it's not a dictation. It's not saying that this is the only way of doing things. It's not putting words in your mouth like, you gotta be you. I've gotta be me. Kevin's gotta be Kevin like but we can all be working under the same framework, with the same mindset, with the same intention of of, you know, helping our students, really helping them, and knowing that they're the experts of their own lives, and trying to draw out their own wisdom. It's not about my wisdom. It's about really, and that's where questions, I think are so powerful, because it can, you know, we can provide students with an opportunity to draw out that wisdom that's that they don't even know is within them, but it's, it's there.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, bro, do you know, uh, Jenny's to blame for for me being here and that that's one of those things that we talked about when she and I got a chance to connect last year, when she was on campus. But when I joined my when I took my job at Western Kentucky University, Jessica Staton and I good NACADA colleague, we drove to Columbia, South Carolina, for a region three conference, and the keynote speaker was Jenny bloom. And I think driving to that conference, I was like, Oh, I have a job. That's nice, and that's great. I'm going to keep doing what I do. And I left that experience, and specifically the keynote experience, sitting there in this tiny ballroom, it was just packed with folks, and I was like, Oh, I'm in a profession, and here's what it is, and now I understand it. And so Brody and all of your angers on days when you're like, gosh, Kevin Thomas is so wrong on this I blamed Jenny Bloom.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We're not that wrong on our professional thoughts, hardly ever. I don't think.

Kevin Thomas  
Jenny, one of the things you know, we were all connected to, and NACADA is probably a glue that has kept us connected for many, many years. When, from your vantage point, why do professional organizations and associations like NACADA matter for advisors and students alike.

Jenny Bloom  
I can't I mean, it's almost difficult for me to put into words how much Nakata has meant to me. You know, here we are coming up to Las Vegas. As you know, NACADA has been in Las Vegas every 10 years, including in 1995 speaking about being a student, I was a, you know, a doc student at the University of Illinois. I was working full time as an academic advisor at the Institute of aviation, and thankfully, my tuition was covered, but I still had to cover books, and I didn't have a lot of money. And I was awarded the NACADA graduate student scholarship. Wow. And like, I can't even tell you how much that meant to me, because money was tight, and to have received that, it was $500 from them, really. And of course, it, it's not just the money, it's the the recognition. Because when you're a doc student, you're doing it in the dark, it seems like, you know, nobody really knows what you're doing, and, you know, you just kind of lay low and get it done, um. And so that was, that was really cool. But, you know, my again, I'll kind of date myself. 1990 was my very first NACADA conference, and it was in Los Angeles. It was in Anaheim, and it was really cool because my grandparents lived there, and so I remember they picked me up at the airport, and I got to spend a little time with them before going to the conference, and I remember going in the elevator, and Nancy King was there. And I remember, think, I remember calling my mom afterwards and saying to her, wow, to meet Nancy. King. She's the of NACADA, like I instantly felt at home because of Nancy King and that very first conference. And I've been going every year since, I've missed just two or three of them. So that's not 3035 years. Don't blink, you know, like I can't believe it, and it's been such a foundational part of of who I am and the amazing people that I know, and you know, the love and support that I have gotten from so many people over the years. It's and yesterday I got to it was really cool. It was kind of a cool kind of moment. The Advising graduate and professional students. What are they calling them now? Community. It's hard to keep up over the years. Me to lead a panel on, you know, using appreciative advising, with advising graduate and professional students. And so I did. I got together five people from various health professions schools as well as graduate school. And the appreciative advising community also co sponsored it. And so it was really kind of cool, because my first leadership position with NACADA was the advising graduate and professional students commission at the time, and then later I also was the the chair of the appreciative advising community. So it like it brought together all, all of my worlds in in one place. And what a thrill that was.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You know, Jenny, you're leaving out one big, big role, right? You served as president. And this was happening, I think, during a real period of growth and professionalization, of advising what stands out most from that specific experience?

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, so I was president from 2007 to 2008 I told you what a core memory it was for me to meet Nancy King in that elevator. And so the one thing that I wanted to do while I was president was to get to as many of the regional conferences as I could, because I knew how impactful it was. It wasn't about me. It was about the role right, being President, and I wanted to meet as many people as I could, and so that, you know, of all the things, that was probably the highlight for me, paying that forward, that gift that that Nancy gave me, I got to pay that forward a lot that year, and that just meant a lot to me personally, in terms of, you know, every you know, President kind of has their their their agenda, but their, you know what they're going to focus on for the year. And the year that I was president, I really wanted to focus on advancing the research in academic advising. And, you know, a lot of really cool things have have come from from that. And I certainly don't take credit for everything that's happened, but Wendy Troxel, and, you know, the great work that the research center is doing, like it has some of its roots back there. And, yeah, so I think, but it's, for me, it's always about the people and the people I got to meet, you know, traveling the country and meeting folks, that was the best part, for sure.

Kevin Thomas  
I bet. I bet, because there are so many great folks that we get a chance to interact with.

Jenny Bloom  
Oh, I mean, academic advisors are the best people on the planet, like, I really do. I mean, I, I will, I will lay the gauntlet down on that one like, you know, they are. They're just so amazing and so dedicated to our students, and it's just inspiring to be around them.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Jenny, I love that you mentioned the regions. That's kind of where I grew up, right? Most of my really formative years in NACADA came through that regional involvement, and I think we undervalue the work that regions do in our space. I know Region Five, I go to region five conferences all the time, and sometimes I'm learning more and getting connected to real work that's being done on my campus better in these smaller venues that at the annual. Conference, just because we're all in the same geographic location, those networks are really important. So it's, it was super cool to hear you say that in your role, getting out to the regions was something that was really important to you.

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, the regions are, you know, such. You know, Region Five, that was my, my home region for many, many years. And then, you know, I was with region three, and now I'm with region four, and my own, you know, leadership path to the presidency did not come through the regions, but I always have had, you know, such great experiences. They're just something about having a little bit of a smaller group of people that I don't know, it's just easier, I think, to make connections for a lot of folks at the region level, whereas the the annual conference can be just a I mean, let's just face it, it can be a little overwhelming. And so yeah, it was, it was clear to me that the thing to do was to get to as many regional conferences as possible.

Kevin Thomas  
This is what they would call, in the courtroom, a leading question. So we're gonna go with that. I know that you have some intriguing thoughts about, appreciate about AI and its impact and its role. So as you see, the profession of advising changing in the next 10 years, what does that look like? And is AI a drastic part of that?

Jenny Bloom  
Yes, you know, I it has changed how I do my work. I am, I'm, I tend to use Google Gemini. So if I talk about Gemini, that's what I'm but, you know, same as Chat GPT, etc. But I think it's super helpful. As for me, it's a really helpful brainstorming partner. And I really want, I think the key to artificial intelligence is, how can we use it so that we can spend less time dealing with administrivia and more time focused on what's really important in my mind is the students, And how can we maximize our time with them. So I think there's great promise there. I am also aware that there's the potential for great peril there. And you know, I think we've got to be have our eyes wide open as we move forward on this. But as a as a starting point, it has just really helped me accelerate my own work. And I mean, I'll give you a practical example. I had this, this panel that I was moderating yesterday, and it was about advising graduate and professional students using appreciative advising. And so I went on to Google Gemini, and I said, I've got, you know, these people who are going to be on this panel, and they're going to be talking about advising graduate and professional students, you know, using the appreciative advising approach, what are good questions that I could ask them? Holy guacamole, it came up with a ton of great questions. And so then, though that's not it, right? I mean, then I had to go through, I had to curate it, I had to do editing, etc. Then I ran it by the people who were on the panel. I let them select the questions that they were most interested in, in answering, but wow, that probably saved me, oh, probably four or five hours. And I can tell you that the questions that that Gemini came up with were really very targeted and specific and on point, and it saved me a bunch of time. You know, times. Time is our most precious asset in many ways. And so the more that I can, you know, focus on the things that are really important, the better.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's absolutely true. And we hear often. I mean, I hear this from advisors all the time, right? 30 minutes isn't enough time to kind of get through what I want to get through and and so I spend a lot of time when I go and talk at NACADA or speak with advisors, you know, asking questions like, well, break down the 30 minutes for me, what does it look like and where? Where could you save time in those spaces? I think it is a space where if we really pay attention to the to the the tools that we have at our disposal, we get more effective at doing the things that are really important. And I think AI has to be a part of that, no question about it. I agree. So let's talk a little bit about balancing related. Educational, student centered approaches like appreciative advising with things that say, for example, Kevin and I have to pay attention to in our roles, which are the growing institutional and data driven pressures of say, retention rates, graduation rates. How do we balance those things? How can advisors balance those things?

Jenny Bloom  
It's not, it's not easy to do. I mean, let's just be honest, right? I mean, it's not like, this is like, Oh, I don't have a magic bullet on this. I wish that I did. Maybe I don't. I keep going back to what Mykel Beorchia who is the Director of the Office of appreciative education, talked about after the pandemic hit. And the phrase that has stayed with me is people before process, I think you know, and again to do to come back around to questions. I am finding that it's the most important thing to do is to realize that I don't have to have all of the answers, but I need to have to be able to ask good questions, not only of the people that I'm working with to get them to remember that we've got to put students first, people first before process, but also for myself, you know, what's the most important thing that I need to be doing in this minute? You know what should be my top priority? Am I focused right now, on people before process like, I think there has to be this constant, constant, you know, reflection on what we're doing. And of course, you have to produce what you're being asked to produce. And oftentimes, we're not just limited to what we've been asked to produce in a report that we can also come and say, Hey, while I was in the data, a little bit, I was looking at some of the qualitative, yeah, that came in. Here's some emerging things that I'm hearing from students and like, right? Like you can do what you've been asked to do and report what you've been asked to report, and you can also bring in additional insights into those meetings that maybe people aren't thinking about. You know, I just data. Data is important, but which data are we reporting? Why? Why are we reporting this data? Why are we relying on one metric to say that we're successful? I think that has to be a continual question that we're asking ourselves and our colleagues.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I think that's a great point. Kevin and I have talked, sorry, Kevin, Kevin, I have talked about storytelling quite a bit as an important part of the narrative related to retention and student success. And I think your concept of people over process is a great reminder of that. Sorry, Kevin.

Kevin Thomas  
No, I think back to and I'm going to get the time frame on this wrong, but it was within the last five or six years, and I saw this video, and it was of FAU grad students who are graduating, and there's this moment in which they're thanking folks, and this particular grad student was thanking you, right?

Jenny Bloom  
It's it is it is the relationships, it is the the people that that really matter. And, you know, being able to tell the story is important, being able to produce the data is important, right? And being able to tell those stories of of the students, and, yeah, it's for me, it's what, you know, it's my why it's what it's all about, is the students and their success. And you know, this is one good thing about, you know, not blinking, is that, you know, as you get older, you get to see your your former students be successful. And it's just indescribable. How cool it is. You know that I got to meet this morning with Jesse, and he's going to be the closing keynote at our appreciative Education Conference in 2026 and, you know, and I got to meet with one of my MD PhD students from the University of Illinois. A couple of weeks ago, he was in town. I got to have lunch with him. I just got a text from Danielle, the woman who did that video. She was sending me an article about Brene Brown, because it made, made her think of me, you know, like, Oh my gosh. Like, that's, this is just in the last week or two. And so I think that. Has just been one of the best gifts of my life, and I've certainly of getting older, is being able to see my students go on and do amazing things.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, Jenny, I want to say this one of the things that I've admired about you the most. And I don't know if this is where we met or not, but I know that you spent a lot of time in your NACADA career doing a session about whether or not to pursue a terminal degree or not. And for the record, I do not have a terminal degree.

Jenny Bloom  
So yeah, Brody, if you if you recall, like that was one of the messages, like, you're gonna have a great life, whether you're not, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
But what I want to say about that is it just speaks to and every time you did that session, this is what I came I was most impressed about, right? You're a busy person. You were a really important person, and you always made this offer, and the offer was, if you're pursuing this and you need help and you want someone to kind of review stuff or talk to to when you're having a problem or a setback, or when you're trying to decide whether you're going to do this or not, I'm your person. Feel free to call me and Jenny, that is so selfless, and really, I think, indicative of the character that you bring every day. And I just want to say, I, I still think that's one of the most amazing things about about you, is just how much you care about the folks that you interact with on a regular basis, like that you're meeting for the first time, and it's just amazing.

Jenny Bloom  
Well, I appreciate that. And I will say again, like just yesterday, I was meeting with Mike Geroux. And you know, Mike and I meet every month, and I'm helping him dissertation, and I'm editing and sending him feedback. And again, you know, is that nice of me to do that? Yes, do I need to do that? No, do I get a lot out of it? Oh, yes, sure, I do. I really enjoy those conversations and and I'm, I'm getting to learn, you know, about research and and you know, like it's all of that is just, I get out of it far more than what I put into it. And I put a lot into each of those relationships, but I love it. So, yeah, it's amazing. It's an honor to do that.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We're going to have some fun, Jenny, now, I think, and kind of get to some personality driven questions. Okay, so I want to tell you this. I was motivated by your streak, and for five years I had a 10,000 steps a day streak. This April, I had to break that I had a torn meniscus, and that was, that was really unpleasant, and I'm still back at it now, going 10,000 steps. You've, you've been running five miles a day, every day, for 15 years.

Jenny Bloom  
Okay, so let me, let me clarify. Alright, so on December 25 of 2005 I made the declaration that I was going to take 10,000 steps every day from that day forward through the end of 2006 okay? And I did, and I did. And so that started it. So we're coming up on now, 20 years. And now I did I have I was not every day for a little while. So anyway, but I that's how I got myself super charged into taking 10,000 steps. I continued to do that. I moved to South Carolina made a lot easier because I was able to be outside. I'm not a treadmill person. I love to be outside. But then I was finding I had to be a lot more efficient with my time. So I started running just to take a little bit less time, to be honest. And I started to take off Wednesdays, because I was teaching at South Carolina, Wednesday morning, a three hour class, an afternoon class, three hours in an evening class, three hours. That's as a lot, you know, like I deserve a day off. What day was I not feeling great? It was Wednesday, sure. And so it is now 13. I think it'll be 14 years in January where I haven't missed a day of taking 10,000 steps. That's incredible. I have gone. It will be almost five and a half years that I have been running five miles every day. So I did that, you know, right at the beginning of the pandemic. I, you know, like there was so much. Much uncertainty and and I will say that you know I'm, I'm, Kevin knows I'm, I'm when I'm out talking, I'm saying, and when we're dealing with so much uncertainty right now that I think the thing that we all have to do is double down on taking good care of ourselves first. Because if you know, if we're not at our best, we're not going to be able to be as nimble and reacting, you know, and and pivot as as we need to. So, yeah, so I'm, I've, I've gone five and a half years of five miles every day, and let me tell you, it's a little bonkers. I mean, I've been to Egypt. I've gotten off, you know, 13 hour flights, and then had to take a train home and then go out and run five miles, you know, to beat midnight. So I've, you know, I've done that. I've got, I've certainly gotten up at two o'clock in the morning. Uh, Kevin knows when I came to his campus, I didn't. I had an early morning flight, so I didn't get up at 2am that day, but I did go on a run around campus. And, yeah, so it's a little bit...

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I ran past you in Pittsburgh last year at 535 45 in the morning. I'm like, gosh, she's a beast.

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, it's the just do it. And I was just seeing something that says, you know, you do it anyway. You know, because there's still rarely a day where I'm like, yay. I can't wait to get out. I do it first thing in the morning. I get it done. To be honest, after like, I don't even think I'm awake for about the first half of my five miles. And so then, you know, so I only have like, two and a half miles because I've kind of sleep run through the first thing. But it was so funny at the beginning, when you all were talking, I was like, I could feel my heart rate go up, because when I listen to you, I'm usually running podcasts when I run, and so hearing your voices made me like I wanted to start running immediately. 

Kevin Thomas  
Well, we're glad you stuck around for the show today. And and I will say both of you have been excellent examples in that Brody. I know you were so upset your streak was was snapped for the reasons it was, but I'm at two and a half years because of both of you on the 10,000 steps. No, I'm not running, unless somebody's chasing me, but I'm still doing.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Okay, that's great.

Kevin Thomas  
So what is your favorite podcast or audio book, or book that you're, you're, you're into right now?

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, I, I'm a big fan of relationship, rich education, the book. We're having a webinar tomorrow that Caleb Morris is doing for the office of appreciative education, about the overlap between appreciative advising and relationship rich education, that I'm excited about. But then podcasts, I mean, this is what I listen to, and so I kind of have, I think, an eclectic group that I talked to, of course, adventures in advising, of course, the pickup meeting. I listen to smart lists, to we can do hard things. Listen to the journal, the Wall Street Journal's, you know, kind of daily podcast, because it gives me it, yeah, it, it keeps me up on things that I'm I don't normally hear about. So that's good, yeah. So that's just some of the ones that I listen to.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Do you have a go to road trip snack?

Jenny Bloom  
Jenny, you know, I tend this is very boring, but water, water. I, I, I've never been a road snack person, but, ah, but I will say I have when I'm flying, which is different than being in a car. I have found lately that I have a tendency for somehow I would go. I go into the little airport store, and when I walk out, there's like, some peanut M Ms, that have jumped into my backpack. So I so I'm going to go with peanut M&Ms, how about that?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's great.

Kevin Thomas  
What's a class that you wish you could sit in on, just for fun?

Jenny Bloom  
I think I was, I was a physical education teaching major when I was at Illinois State University. I think subsequently, I've, I have read so much of the positive psychology literature, I would love to take a positive psychology class. Yeah, yeah, that'd be very cool.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Do you have a favorite way to celebrate a small win.

Jenny Bloom  
The main way that that I celebrate small wins is Steve and I go out for for dinner, and we we celebrate. So, yeah, we did that last night, you know, because it was a small win, having the panel go so well, you. Yesterday, and so we went out and celebrated that last night.

Kevin Thomas  
Do you have a smell that instantly makes you happy, or maybe trans takes you to some other place? We could involve this question.

Jenny Bloom  
I'm thinking about nakana. So when we were in Salt Lake City,

Kevin Thomas  
yeah,

Jenny Bloom  
2013 the what's the name of that? That hotel, the little grand something like that. I know what you're talking about. I'm talking about. It was so weird. I was going back to my hotel room, and I walked into the small building, because, if they have a bunch of different buildings, yeah, it immediately took me back to my dad's parents house, so my grandparents on my dad's side. It immediately took me back to like 1975 and it was breathtaking how spot on the smell was it like blew me away. So when I think about smell, I think about that experience like it took me back to my grandparents house, just like that.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's amazing. Do you remember the first Nakata session you ever presented?

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, you know, so how I how I got started, I think it was actually with my cousin, Christy. I I was scared to death of presenting at NACADA. The only way that I was able to gather the courage to be able to present was to have a co presenter. So I always tell people who are starting out because it's it is intimidating to present at NACADA for the first time. And so I think my cousin Christy and I, Christy Koontz, Christy bloom Koontz, who is now a senior she's a senior associate provost at the University of Illinois. Now she and I presented together, and I think that might have been one of the first times that I presented, but certainly that's what I did, probably for the first five or six times that I presented, was just to have a co presenter.

Kevin Thomas  
What's a song that always puts you in a good mood? This will be a wrap up question.

Jenny Bloom  
Yeah, so Steve and I, every night, we go out on our porch, and we have what we call porch hours. And there are rules to porch hours.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I love this. 

Jenny Bloom  
there's no electronics. You cannot be on your phone, and we sometimes will play music. Well, we have, I don't want to say her name, because she'll come on Alexa, and we'll ask her to play something. And but then we also at the end of the evening, when we've watched the sunset, there she is that will we end with what we call we say porch hours to her, and she will play three songs, and one of them is Piano Man, oh, hi, Joel, and then the last one is time to say goodbye, and the first one is Southern Cross. So we always end with Southern Cross. Piano Man, and time to say goodbye. And you know, it's great, because by the time, time to say goodbye is done. We're both like, you know, we're ready to go to bed.

Kevin Thomas  
That's amazing. I mean, what a wonderful story, what a wonderful way to wrap this up. It is time for us to say goodbye. But Jenny, thank you so much for being a guest on the show today. Truly a pleasure.

Jenny Bloom  
Well, I appreciate the opportunity. I am big super fans of you both, and congratulations on the early success of the podcast, and I truly am humbled and honored to have been asked to be on this so thank you both, and please keep up the good work and Brody Go Red Birds.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you, Jenny, thank you. Jenny, oh so great.

Kevin Thomas  
What good food for my soul today. That's what this has been?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yes, so amazing.

Kevin Thomas  
We got a lot of music in today. We did. I was super excited about that? Yeah, I figured you would be in all of the areas that you're focused on music. Now you have records to go look up and buy for things that we didn't you don't already have, but you probably already have them all.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, the one thing I think, I think traditions and music are really great. Like one of the things that my wife and I do is that first cup of coffee, I almost always. Put a record on, I try to listen to at least one record a day, and it's that 620, to 720 kind of time frame where I pop a record on and we just listen and talk. And sometimes cats like, what is this? If it's jazz, it's really good, or I hate this, you know, but it's, it is still a really fun part of the relationship. And so I really appreciated that it's a great story.

Kevin Thomas  
It is fantastic. And then, you know, just hearing about appreciative advising and the approach that so many of our team members are utilizing so many of our staff are are part of and how it is shaping their experience as professionals, but shaping the impact that's occurring on our campuses to our students. Just can't ask for much more than that.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, people over process, right? Is a simple phrase that I'm going to remember right from our time with her, that it's just that reminder that it's the folks that are right in front of us that matter the most, and that pedagogy of presence right like giving them our best learning and listening and asking the right questions, dreaming with folks, whether it's professionals we work with, or the students that we're working With, or our friends just really kind of making certain that that is our priority in our conversations and work with folks.

Kevin Thomas  
Absolutely well, we're gonna end the show in a new way today. About this, I I'm really excited about it. So this is some stealing from a previous guest. You know, I do these road trips with a previous guest, been gross and Ben and I do top three or top five lists as we're driving along the interstate as we're heading off to Gatlinburg. And so we said, well, let's come up with a top three list that we're going to end the show with. And today's top three list is top movie or TV themes. I think we all stuck in TV themes, so it's top TV themes of all time. And I'm going to start, we just and I'll let you know. Here's some of the on the big board that didn't make my top three. Oh, okay, right. So we, I have succession and friends, the office in Parks and Rec. My Game of Thrones is on there, the West Wing. I know you're really surprised the West Wing didn't hit a top three for me. I am surprised. Fresh Prince of Bel Air shits Creek, Friday Night Lights. And really one of my favorites is the Olympic theme song. I just love that song. But here are my top three. Okay, in no particular order, because I don't know where any given day this could change the Golden Girls. I listen that song comes on and you know, it's the Golden Girls. Full house, okay? And cheers. Those are my three.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So kind of a mix of 80s and 90s. I went 70s and 80s. That's because I'm old.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, so tell us why it's Green Acres. Settle down.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I picked I picked mash, yeah, and I think mash was on Monday nights, and it was the night that my mom and dad would go bowling. They had this bowling league like back in the day, when people hung out with each other and did real things and weren't on their phone playing video bowling. And so we always watched mash before we left. I picked Hill Street Blues. I think that's a great classic TV theme. That was the first drama I remember watching when I was a kid. And then I picked Miami Vice which is just an amazing but, like, I was thinking Hawaii Five, oh, would be on my list for sure.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, like, what's on the big board, other than than those three or four? I mean, Law and Order is famous for sure, you're more in the the musical or the instrumental, less than the people.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
How about this? The Greatest American Hero, right? Like the that is a great TV theme, no question about it.

Kevin Thomas  
My old roommate in college did his uh, answering machine to that song. But it was like, believe it or not, I'm not home right now. Like, it just would like, and it was just perfect. George did that on Seinfeld too. Oh, is that right? I'm not a person. So, yeah, he stole it from George. He did, gosh, so slick, that Casey Shorts.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Well, I think we've hit our end today. We have I had so much fun today, and I want to thank Jenny bloom again for coming on. But friends, that's it for this edition of the pickup meeting. We hope all your regular meetings are as productive, as fun as this pickup meeting was today, until the next time, let's do good and be nice. Just be nice.