Ep. 3 - John Vasquez, University of Michigan

Brody and Kevin are back for Episode 3 with more bantering about podcast bloopers, international listeners (yes, even you, Croatia 👀), and the electric energy of a new academic year. This week, they’re joined by John Vasquez, freshly appointed Assistant Vice Provost for Student Success at the University of Michigan.

John shares his inspiring journey from first-gen student in cowboy boots and a bolo tie to national leader in advising and equity-driven student success. He gets real about life-changing (and life-saving) advising, building trust in new leadership roles, and why removing barriers is at the heart of higher ed.

Of course, it wouldn’t be The Pickup Meeting without some fun detours: Hogwarts houses, dream dinner guests, Border Collie rescues, and what REALLY makes the perfect pickup meeting. Spoiler: it might involve tacos, tequila, or a Michigan brewery. 🍻

Tune in for laughter, leadership lessons, and a reminder that in higher ed, we don’t just change lives...we sometimes save them.

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go again. Brody Broshears. Look at us. We're back for another episode of the pickup meeting. How are you? My friend?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm doing great. I'm doing great. You know, getting used to doing this podcast, right? You? You forget little things. We were running a little behind today because I didn't hit the enter the studio button. I'm here, looking at the camera, waiting for everybody, and...

Kevin Thomas  
Looking pretty. All the things.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And I failed to enter the studio. Which is super fun, which kind of gets it? The first thing we were going to talk about, which is, you know, we've been doing this now for a little bit, and I think we're learning some things, getting some feedback, which has been mostly positive, but, you know, you always kind of, you hear the things, then you get the notes, and you're like, Oh man, yeah, we need to work on that. I need different words for Fantastic. Like, fantastic is a word that I say a lot, and I remember when I did radio, I needed synonyms for the words, like awesome and great, because that just seems to be stuff that I like to use when we're talking to folks. 

Kevin Thomas  
Let's go with swell. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Swell is good. Yeah.

Kevin Thomas  
Rright. We can. We can swell. It's been really great to hear from people, listeners, and we can say listeners, as we are doing this, we know that there are more than a few of you listening, which is great. We're recording this third episode, and we've heard some feedback on on some of the shows. So far, it's been great to to know that one, people are listening, and two, that everyone is a critic.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. My daughter was saying the other day, you know, Dad, when you and Kevin interrupt each other, you guys just need to own the interruption. That's what they do on all the other podcasts. Just Own the interruption. I thought that was hilarious.

Kevin Thomas  
In a complete shout out to my former mentor, her guidance was, I really like the show, smartless, and they talk pretty slow, and you should slow down too.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I don't feel like we're talking too fast.

Kevin Thomas  
No, I think we're just being us like we would be on the phone. Hence the pickup meeting. That's the good goal. Hey, and listen from the the information that we know we're internationally listened to. That's right, right? So it's not just many of the 50 states, not all of you looking at you, Nevada, but it is also international, with listeners from Canada, yeah. And then we have to use the the singular here, listener in Croatia. That's That's amazing. My wife has says that she thinks that the the Croatian listener is a bot. And I've said, How dare you defame our Croatian listener?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah. I mean, we don't know who it is, but it probably is someone and not a bot, not a bot. I can't believe bots are mining podcasts on higher ed academic advising and student success, right? Like, there's, there's nobody that would intentionally bought to that, wouldn't you agree, right? Like, that's not an algorithm folks are using.

Kevin Thomas  
It's concerning. If it is.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is concerning. He started the school year.

Kevin Thomas  
Super excited. We're recording this here in mid August, and I think this will be released here in late August, early September, beginning of the school year. And such energy that comes back to campus. And it's not to say that all campuses are slow during the May to August timeframe, but those first groups that come back to campus are fantastic. I was walking through campus the other day, and you could hear the drum line of the marching band practicing and getting things going. And it just feels like this really wonderful time frame. I have a little bit of like the Rudy Rudiger walking through the Notre Dame campus. Is the music playing around me, and it's just the band playing, you know, down, down the road.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, we, we have the band on our quad right now, too, an activity. I look my office looks right out to the quad. I've maybe mentioned that before, and so it's fun to just take a break from the computer and look out and see new students kind of doing their thing and kind of fill in the quad with fun activities, you know, cornhole DJs. It's, it's a great time to be in higher ed, right, that August, September time frame right the start of the school year. On all the energy and enthusiasm, all the possibilities for our students, it's a great time.

Kevin Thomas  
So what? What are you excited about as you're going into to the the new year?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I mean, I've been here two years. I think Illinois State, for example, is a bigger institution. And so to me, I feed every year, and my theme this year, I'm really excited about connection. Is the strategy is my theme for the year we talked maybe about effort and purpose with Tara a couple of episodes. Episodes ago, and I just think that sometimes working hard isn't enough. You got to connect. And so I think my unit is big enough that even within our own space, understanding what each of our roles are and what we're trying to accomplish is is really important and needs to be intentional. So I'm excited about that theme, right, getting more connected to folks on campus and within my unit.

Kevin Thomas  
For sure, yeah, and I think that there's a timeframe in which we hit, and it's right now for me, in my world, where, for folks listening, I have a variety of areas, and we talk a lot about advising and student success on this show, but it's also one of those where I have admissions and financial aid and the registrar's office and veterans and just a lot of groups that are super busy right now. You know, we just had commencement over the weekend for summer graduates of grad programs, and so, you know, it's like those things are wrapping up, and everyone's focused on what your number is going to be, how many students are you going to bring in? And I've now equated my job to being incredibly similar to a scene in elf. I know Brody a movie that you don't enjoy as much, but we can talk about that during the Christmas season, but there's a scene in it where Santa lands after going out and delivering all the presents and doing all the things, and they all cheer, and they all celebrate. And then he hops down and he says, Alright, on to next year. And then everybody celebrates and goes back to making toys. That's what I feel like my world is right now. I'm still trying to land the ship that is the freshman class and the retention rate, and do all the things that we do in our world. And at the same time, I'm putting out new application for students to come in fall 26 and please get applying for next year. And it just does not stop, which is, is great. It's wonderful job security, but it is also a little little much sometimes.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is weird, right? Like, I know 10 more students gets us to a certain percentage point right in terms of our fall 24 class, right? If we net 10 more, this is where we end up, and we are kind of at that point in the year, right for folks that are paying attention to retention rates and thinking about metrics and strategic planning. It's, it's definitely that time of the year.

Kevin Thomas  
That's right. And I think we're to that time of the podcast where it's, it's time to bring on our guest, absolutely. Let's do it. I'm excited about this one. Yeah, I'm super excited to bring on a fellow faculty member of the Administrators Institute for our listeners. This is episode three. But yes, it has been three faculty members from the administrators Institute. We're going to break that trend at some point. We eventually run out. But we're very happy to have John Vasquez with us today on the pickup meeting. Welcome, John.

John Vasquez  
Hey, welcome. Thank you guys. I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you all. Yeah, I don't know. I listened to Tara's chat with you all. So, so I know I'm third in line, so I'm also a little nervous about being a follow up act to somebody as amazing as her. So, and you, of course.

Kevin Thomas  
We've heard this. We've heard this from guest number two. I got, I got an angry text message from, why am I following Tara?

John Vasquez  
So Dana was your second? Dana, okay, I feel better now. Yeah, oh, data, I love her. We have that love hate relationship, and it's mostly love, yeah, you know her trying to speak Spanish to me. Mucho mi amor.

Kevin Thomas  
Exactly, exactly. So, John, I know that you are in the middle of a transition, right? You are transitioning to, I believe this is Assistant Vice Provost for Student Success and senior director of the comprehensive student Studies program at the University of Michigan. Congratulations. It's one of these things for listeners that don't know a little bit about you, if you don't mind, to just give them a brief introduction and and just share a little bit about you.

John Vasquez  
Sure. Thanks. Yeah, so this is actually a little bit of a homecoming for me. I've been in higher ed for about 25 years, not including undergrad and grad school and whatnot. I started at the University of Michigan as a staff member 97 in student affairs, and so I've worked for higher ed, mostly doing I like to think of my work as the intersection of educational equity, institutional change, and especially nowadays, public accountability. So I was, I'm one of these people that has worked in advising offices, grad schools, research offices, but mostly federally funded student success initiatives. Really trying to look at, how do we remove. Barriers for historically marginalized students. How do we engage our minoritized communities? And not just by race ethnicity? I'm also talking about immigrant communities, rural communities, and doing a lot of that work. And so I worked for Michigan. I actually this this fall will be 30 years ago that I came to Michigan as a freshman in the comprehensive studies program, which is very much like a trio, but at a scale, yeah, and I can tell you, tell you more about trio, if you want to know. But I left Michigan about 10 years ago to kind of look at other past years, to kind of check out other institutions. So I worked primarily at Hispanic serving institutions, regional comprehensive community college, some other places. So lots of stories and things that we can share about what it's like to go from an r1 to these smaller institutions, through covid through the first Trump administration. So we got plenty of stories that we share, but yeah, and I'm very happy to be back at the University of Michigan, not not just because of kind of the resources and whatnot, because it really is for me, a place that I've been able to take, or I feel like I can take what I've learned at these other places, especially around advising and supporting students, and then really doing it at scale. So I hope that's enough.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It's great. Yeah, two things, John, I didn't know you were that old.

John Vasquez  
You're as old as me. Man, almost. That's

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
you look way better than I do. That's the first thing.

Kevin Thomas  
So that's also true. Yes, that's right.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
But like, let's follow up to that like, yeah, how has that breath, right, influenced your leadership approach in higher education? You've been in a lot of different kinds of institutions. You've worked in a lot of different spaces within higher ed. How's that influenced your leadership approach? 

John Vasquez  
Well, I think for me, I've had a lot of roles where I always made sure I had to have direct contact with students. And so, even so, when I was dean of a grad school at CSU Pueblo, right? I still wanted to meet with students. And my staff were always like, why you don't need to meet with the students? We do that. And I'm like, no, no, I want to go and I want to hear them and and I love it, because whenever you meet with students, the first thing that other people will tell you is, well, they're going to complain about X, Y or Z, and to be honest, yes, sometimes they tell you about their struggles, but the other half of the time, they're telling you about all of the stuff that they're so appreciative for, the opportunities we've given, the funding they've gotten. And I think, and for me, I I've also done a lot of work where I get to see under like undergrad research, grad students do research. And I'm not going to lie, the stuff that they're doing now has is just really amazing at the I'll say it this way, at the University of Michigan, I was there when they were creating the, quote, Life Science Institute, and just talking about, what is DNA. And now I've come back, and not only do they have a whole research institution, we have undergrads doing research in biomedical, you know, nanotechnology. And I'm like, wow, oh my God, I didn't have to take a science when I was an undergrad. Mine literally was like, you have to take a moons and planet class, which I didn't pass. Y'all, I did not pass. I missed it by one question, but I took it so it counted.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
There's only like nine planets, right, John? There's there's only like nine planets.

John Vasquez  
I told you I failed. So I don't know the answer to that, because Pluto, to me, is still a planet, and they said it's not anymore. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I know that is disappointing, really.

John Vasquez  
Yeah. So yeah, it's fun.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah. I love the embrace, right, of what you're talking about, and knowing that students are not going to say great things at all times, but on the flip side, wanting to hear the bad or the troubled so that you can also get the good that's there. It's such a process. And you mentioned some of the grant aspect of your life. But like, I'm a big embracer of audits, and if somebody says, Oh, well, we'd like to bring a consultant in, bring it on, right? We only get better when we hear the things that need to occur. And so like, I wonder, as you like, if you reflect on your experience and trajectory of your career, from the comprehensive studies program through the varying aspects of career, including a lot of work and grants and a lot of work and getting money to institutions like, what are those things that you really think About being transformative in that part of your journey?

John Vasquez  
That's a good question. You know, I've been reflecting a lot about my experience in comprehensive studies and and again, that program like like trio, for folks who aren't familiar with trio, comprehensive studies, was University of Michigan's version, contrary to popular belief, comprehensive. Studies is not for or Trio are not for, like under educated minority students to give them a leg up. It's not that trio comprehensive studies. Of the programs that I've worked with really are programs that support first generation students, whether they're white, Black, Asian, but particularly low income and like from rural areas, trio has some other stipulations for students with disabilities and other things. Same thing for conference studies. Our program has 3500 students. That's larger than some of that's a program that's larger than some of the universities that I colleges that I've worked at. I was when I came as a freshman in 1985 I was in that program. And at first I questioned it, right? Because I had this, this theory that other people did, which was, oh, I'm Latino, so you're putting me in this program and and I actually had some students, fellow students, tell me that, oh, you're in that program because you're Latino, and that's why they let you in. And I thought it to myself, and I'm like, Hmm, yep, I'm Latino, but I'm also from San Antonio, Texas, and there's like nobody else from and then all the students that were admitted, I'd never met anybody else in San Antonio. I also spoke Russian, French, Spanish and English. At the time, I also graduated the top 15 of my class, but I was the only one that went to college or went to outside of Texas for the university I had been.

Kevin Thomas  
Was Italian too much to learn. Like, you just, you didn't want to do that one. Like, what was happening?

John Vasquez  
I was it was on the list to learn. Oh, okay, got it. Yeah, I had done a pre freshman. I had done a engineering program in the summers in San Antonio. So I'm like, I like, I deserve to be here. But what I realized is, I have no idea how to navigate this space, especially in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And I'll tell you, like, I have the pictures, and I wish I could show you, but like, just imagine the skinny, curly haired Mexican with a handlebar mustache, tight Wrangler Jeans, a big Texas belt buckle, and the geometric cowboy shirts with a bolo tie. That's how I showed up.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You didn't stick out at all, I'm sure, right? Like, you fit right in.

John Vasquez  
Right? They were like, did you bring a winter coat? And I'm like, I have a windbreaker. And so it was that was just the beginning, right? That was the first year in 95 that the University of Michigan actually closed. This place never closes when it snowed and it was just, it was just an amazing experience, right? It was just crazy and out of the ordinary for me. I shouldn't say crazy out of the ordinary for me. And so this program helped me both navigate those things, but also the transition from like being a high schooler to being a student to then being an adult, right? And I didn't realize there were so many rules and things you had to follow and instructions and not to take this into a serious or turn, but like I came out in my sophomore year, and I contemplated suicide, and part of my story that I share with my students a lot, and it had to do with upbringing and where I was from and my family. And so it was my advisor, conference of studies, advisor, he's retired now, who helped me manage that process, helped me get through resources that helped me drop out and then come back in a way that was supportive and in a process, so I was able to graduate still, and I think for me as now an administrator, those are the lesson that experience that I had with those other students, it really frames how I think about not just what we do for students, but how we do it for students?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You know, John, I've been involved in trio now since 2009 right? I wrote the first students court services grant at one of my previous institutions that they had ever written. And one of the things, the word that I love to use, is comprehensive, right? How do we know we're serving diverse populations. Well, I'm like when we provide comprehensive services to students in the roles that seek to help students navigate, right? And I love that word and your story is really powerful, right? I think it speaks to the importance of programs like trio and comprehensive studies for students coming to campus. I was a first generation college student, and, you know, I had lots of privilege, even, even, even with that but, but I would say that I went to a big 10 institution, Indiana University, and man, learning how to navigate that space is a first generation college student was really challenging.

John Vasquez  
Yeah, and I think one of the other pieces that I've gotten to do that expanded as I have moved up, is in my first roles as directors, working in advising or heading up advising programs, I helped to do some of this comprehensive, I like to think of as holistic work and advising at the organizational level. So really helping to stabilize some offices, really helping to help advisors figure out, how do we support, especially students who were not used to providing a whole lot of resources. And I'll say it this way, that institutions aren't used to providing comprehensive resources, but we want advisors to do it right? And so that's a different story, right? So helping advisors do that, and then now that I've been able to move up, and particularly in this role, looking at my work systemically, so really looking at the systems that we put into place because, because a lot of times, you know, people forget, I'm a I'm a scholar of higher education administration. In particular, these institutions were not created, not just not for students of color, for women, but also not for rural students, not for students who come from lots of different parts of the US, not to mention international students. And so these systems were really designed for elite folks and right and now that our institutions have become more diverse, more open, more inclusive, I know those are words that we're not supposed to be using, but we do right they are. We have to help those institutions, help support the students that they're saying we want to bring in, and that's a lot of students. So yeah.

Kevin Thomas  
John, I appreciate you sharing, because I think that so often we think about our jobs as being life changing, but even with some of your story that you were just talking about, I don't know that we always view it as life saving, and that's the role that we sit in, and it's so powerful. And so I kind of wonder about your journey within all that you've you've experienced and gone through, and kind of tying it into a lot of listeners that we have that are part of the NACADA community. How has that journey shaped how you view advising? Shaped that advising philosophy shaped your approach to development in that student success world, and maybe some of your time as part of the administrators Institute, and the various ways you've been involved tie in there some too.

John Vasquez  
Yeah. I mean, I think you know, the best way I can answer that is, again, sharing an experience that I had. I remember one job that I had, I was, again, I was an administrator. It might have been when I was working at a grad, one of the grad schools that I worked at, I had a student that was walking through the hall, and she was very nervous, very you could tell she was upset, and she was looking confused. And I'm like, Hi. How you doing? Can I help you find something? And you know, she said, Thank you. She said, I'm looking for the Institute. I'm looking for the IRB office. And so for some of your listeners, that's the Institutional Review Board. And I'm like, oh, that's that is, they don't actually have an office. You have to contact them virtually. And she just started bawling. And I'm like, Oh, my God. You know, come you know, come in. My office is right here. Let's come in. We started chatting. And so it turns out this was a graduate student who had both a faculty advisor and a staff advisor. And at the graduate level, it's different than undergrad, I understand, but it could be very similar. And she was just like, I'm trying to follow all the instructions that I was given about getting my dissertation started and doing my research. I did all the training, I followed all the steps, but then I had to get, I have to get this permission, and it's, you know, I've emailed them and they're not responding, and I'm just frustrated. And then she goes into like, I have to pick up my kid, and I just, I had to drop her off, and I'll have to pick her up, but I have some time in between, so I will stop. Between, so I was stopping by. So in my head, all that's going around is like, here's a student that's trying to follow all the rules that also has a life outside, right? And obvious? Obviously, we're not, we're not meaning to be complicated, but we've just made it really frustrating. And so I'm like, Well, you know, first of all, it's okay to cry. I'm like, I was in your shoes, I cried as well, because it can be really frustrating and overwhelming when you're just trying to do the best that you can. And I mean, you could see she was relieved about that. We talked a little bit more. It gave her the connections we need. And I think for me, that that experience is one of those experiences that our students share, whether they're grad students or undergrads first year seniors, right? We have these things in place to help support our students, and sometimes they're confusing, sometimes we drop the ball and they get lost, and it can be really frustrating, especially when they're dealing with stuff outside their lives and. For me, the question always comes back to kind of like, how are we removing barriers for students? How are we making sure we're not inadvertently hurting some students or making it difficult for them when we don't need to? And for me, the student parent is always the good one for me to start with, because I'm like, if I'm a student parent, can I navigate your processes or get the services I need? Because remember, some of our student parents aren't going to be doing their work or thinking about college until nine o'clock at night when the kids are asleep. So can they get help at nine o'clock at night? And that, for me is that is how I think about those things.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Can I follow up a little bit? You know, we've talked up. Let's move into advising, maybe more specifically. But you've talked about systems approaches, and you you've helped restructure support systems across several different institutions. So I think you're hitting on this a little bit. But what's a common mistake that you think institutions are making when they try to reform advising or reorganize? 

John Vasquez  
That's a great question, and we talk a lot about that at the administrators Institute, because a lot of folks who come in and say, you know, we're here to find out what are the top five or 10 Best Practices in advising that we need to start doing in our advising office. And I love it when they ask that, because I always answer it, well, it depends. And they're like, What do you mean? And it's just like, well, it depends on your resources, it depends on your context. It depends who your students are, it depends how much buy in you have. It depends what your system is. It really depends and so, and I know that's hard for a lot of people to hear the first time, but yeah, that that is the most common thing. 

Kevin Thomas  
John, as you are starting your new role, I wonder, and if you haven't thought about just say, Hey Kevin, knock us off. I don't want to you know, anytime you're going to lead an office, it there's there's a varying amount of trust and growing that has to come into what you're doing. And so when you look at that transition that you're going through, and given some of the things you just talked about with with Brody's and or answer Brody's question, there, what are ways that you're already thinking about here's how I'm going to build trust. Here's how I'm going to build trust, here's how I'm going to be a part of this team. Here's how I'm going to grow and and do my best to lead in a new role. Because there are so many folks that are starting new roles and just varying parts of their life.

John Vasquez  
Yeah. So part of it is, is trying to get a understand the context of your role is really the first thing I tell people, and by that, I say, what do people think your job is not? What is the job description? Now it is what they did when you when you were interviewing you, if you were good, right? You're they tell you you're supposed to ask questions. What are your expectations? Where? What am I supposed to do the first 90 days, the first, you know, year? How are you going to develop me? No, no, my question. And I've started to talk with some folks, even though my job hasn't officially started at this point, I've gone to meet with people and ask them so I know what the job description is, but what did they tell you my job was, and for me, it's really important, because my role has two pieces. One is directing an advising office of 15, you know, advisors we have. We have a Living Learning Community. We have about 60 lecturers that run some of our courses, but then I'm Assistant Vice Provost, so there's this expectation I do some work at the university level. So my onboarding is also separated, or they're working on it for two kind of different roles. And I've already been thinking about, well, what does it mean? Who am I meeting with? Who are the first folks that I'm coming in to meet with? And one of the things that I found out, which I've asked them to correct, is the first day I'm meeting with everybody at the provost level, which is good, but what about my advisors? And so I said, you know, do you have anything scheduled? They already have me scheduled nine to four. And I'm like, Well, what's that eight? What's at four? Nothing. Okay, you need to put in time for me to go to talk with the advisors, the frontline folks. And of course, the response is, well, you have four assistant or associate directors who will help you manage them like, I understand that, but that's the point. The point is this, this particular office hasn't had a director for 18 months, and they've gone through some searches that didn't go so well. So I, I asked, I I'm guesstimating that there's a lot of fear, some excitement, but also like, how is this going to go? Because we're, I can already tell they're, they're, some of the comments have been, you're, you're, you're here. We're excited, but you're not a full director. And so there's some work that we have to do around, not just transitions, but also, I like to think of it as cultural re acclimation. There was a culture before with all the other directors, and now there's a new culture with new kind of mid level folks. And so we need to take some time to build up. What that is and how we're going to work together. And I don't see it as anything bad or difficult to actually think of it as very exciting, but I know it could also be nerve wracking for folks, because they they kind of are looking for some sort of stability, not in the sense of a leader, but like, well, how are we function? And so that's going to be some of the work coming in. So that's what I'll be trying to do through listening, talking and then spending time with folks.

Kevin Thomas  
There's an anxiety that comes with that from the folks that are going to be under your umbrella of things. And so it's refreshing to hear that approach of things. And even in your seat, right, you're new. It sometimes becomes difficult when people are planning your day one to just be bold enough to say, hey, there's some things missing here. So kudos for you for doing it. That anxiety on the other side is very, very real.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And while you're new, right, like you're not really new, right, like you're what you are, is experience, right? You understand what's important. You know. You know how you want to shape this role. And even if you're nervous about that, you know what you know. And I think being bold enough to say that is really an important part of starting in any new space.

John Vasquez  
Thanks. What's really interesting is I used to also work with this department when I was at University of Michigan. I wasn't necessarily in it, but I worked with them quite a bit. A lot of the people have retired now, but some of the initial during the interview process, and doing, you know, some of the initial conversations, a lot of the issues that folks are having are still the same. So so that, to me, is also a signal that, like, sometimes we like, think, oh, this person is complained, or that person is always just complaining, and I'm like, no, no, if the issues are still there, when the people are gone, it wasn't really the people, it was the system, it was the organization that kept creating it. So for me, I know. I'm like, I know now, like, I'm hearing this problem again. Yep, it was really a problem, not the person that was telling me.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So, yeah, yeah, John, you know, this kind of speaks to, I want it kind of speaks again to some of your leadership approaches. But we're in a politically charged environment, no matter where you stand, I think, but, and I know that the political environments impacted your work in tremendous ways. But how do you balance maybe the hope and the realism when you're working in complex systems, often under resourced spaces, and add that political climate to the to the piece as well.

John Vasquez  
You know, I've been, I've been thinking a lot about that, Cody. It's just...Brody. 

Kevin Thomas  
Do we go with Cody there?

John Vasquez  
Because I'm thinking, my brain can only do so much. 

Kevin Thomas  
You asked too difficult of a question. So while John think of an answer, I'm going to continue with this Cody fun, because it's so great you stopped that it's the pickup meeting with Cody. It sounds like a Disney show. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Open realism. Open realism. Balancing, hope and realism go on now.

John Vasquez  
Yes, okay, balancing. So here's the thing I I have been working at a new resource and and basically open access institutions since, I would say, before covid, during the first Trump administration during covid, the second term administration opening up after covid. And so here are the things that I think about right. Here's what I've been thinking about during this whole time. I don't know if it answers your question, but one is, how are we removing barriers for students? That's one, right? So there might always like, how, how do, what do students see as a barrier, and how are we doing to fix that? Two is who's shaping this, and I'm thinking about especially all the policies after covid, and who got to make those decisions, and everything that I was a part of, and that was a whole stressful and then how are we building systems inside the institution and outside that reflect the students who were trying to serve, and the matches the students, but their families, their communities and things. And so for me, it really is a big part of it is who's the community that we're a part of? Who are we trying to help out? And even University of Michigan, right? A lot of folks like to to, I don't know what the word, I can't think of the word right now, but they like to write, oh, you bring a lot of outside students. No, we actually serve, we do, but we also serve a big part of Michigan, especially rural Michigan. And so for me, it's those students bring a lot of ideas, a lot of energy. They like, they want to improve their when you talk to them about, oh, why? You know, what do you want to do while you're at Michigan, they're like, I want to learn how to be an entrepreneur so I can go back to the up and like, help the businesses flourish. Like, to me, that's, that's hope right there, that's, I'm helping a student who's really trying to reinvest in their community. Say when I think about who gets to shape right? It is the policies that you know, the federal government, different administrations, bring down on us, but it's also how we interpret them and operationalize them that we have an influence on that. So for me, that's that's where I have hope in some of this uncertainty moving forward, is we also have to operationalize these things that are coming down, and we can do it in such a way that is both legal but also supports the values that we we say we uphold, and then the removing buyer species, we're just always doing that and knowing that, because you identify a barrier, that doesn't mean you did wrong, which is part of the hard part with working with folks, especially in advising, because every time I work with advisors, they're like, Oh, we I messed up somehow, because I created a barrier. No, you did it. It's like we have a process here. We have procedures. You didn't create them. You just helped us to identify them, and we're going to work on it. So it's not your fault. That's part of this goal, this role of us moving forward is constantly changing, constantly evolving to meet the needs of our students.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I think if we start just by being who we say we strive to be, we set ourselves up for success. Oftentimes, I think the missions and visions and the strategic objectives, they all sound really great, but then nothing we do on the campus automatically moves us through those things in really positive ways, and so that's an important part of that. Appreciate that response.

Kevin Thomas  
John, we're at a point where we're making our way through the pickup meeting. You're surviving. It's not too bad, you know, we've done well. But I guess you think about this with a colleague or whoever. What's the ideal pickup meeting for you? You know, what's the vibe, where's the location, what's the conversation, what are something that stands out for you?

John Vasquez  
The pickup meeting for me and my colleagues is going down the street to a brewery, having a beer sitting out in the backyard, underneath the the umbrellas. It's Michigan. So it's, you know, the it's one of the three months that we get spring. It's not snowing. It's chatting. And it's, you know, you know, chatting, talking about what's going on, talking about Michigan football. I am not a football player. You know, I do know. I know nothing about football, unless it comes to University of Michigan, the Wolverines. So although I did build a state, it's so yeah, and just talking shooting the breeze, I I'm a bit of a nerd, so I love talking about, like, oh, well, how you know, did you read this article from from this higher ed person, blah, blah, and that's fun to me. 

Kevin Thomas  
This is, uh, why you and Dana get along, because her answer was chocolate martini. Yours is brewery and so exactly, collaboration and pick up there.

John Vasquez  
Oh, definitely, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
So I'm gonna ask one more fun question then, like, how about that? So, okay, like, we asked this of Dana and I, and we tried to answer this the other day, but if we gave you a billboard at the Nakata annual conference, what would it say?

John Vasquez  
Tacos and tequila right here that will get them to the sessions.

Kevin Thomas  
That's wonderful.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Or at least to you, right? At least if you're holding up the billboard, they're coming to you, right?

Kevin Thomas  
Very good. All right, we're to a lightning round here. And as you've listened, the lightning round is sometimes not so lightning ish, but we're going to do our best song that always gets you hyped before a big presentation.

John Vasquez  
I do know this. Oh my god, right here. It's until my time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Oh no, did we lose John? I'm

John Vasquez  
right here. I'm just paused. I can't think. I'm stuck. I'm mentally constipated. I know this, but I can't say it. Okay, next, can I call a friend?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, if you weren't doing higher ed work, what would you be doing? What would your dream job be?

John Vasquez  
Border Collie rescue. Border Collie rescue? I yep, I volunteer for for we, that's where we got our dog. So you get to pick up Border Collies at different parts of the US and drive them cross country to their new homes.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Oh, that sounds awesome.

Kevin Thomas  
If you know it. What is your Enneagram type? Or, you know, more importantly, your Hogwarts house? 

John Vasquez  
I think I did this, and I am Hufflepuff. 

Kevin Thomas  
I don't know what that means. But I mean, I've seen the movies.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You all are speaking a foreign language to me, the only person I may be, the only person in the whole world that's not read any of the books or seen none of those movies. And I'm now at a point where I'm taking significant pride in that, and so we'll just leave it at that.

John Vasquez  
Loyal. Trusting practical. Hufflepuff, yeah.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
okay, yeah, Brody, what's your most What's your most used emoji?

John Vasquez  
Oh, the upside down face, the upside down. Confused face. Like, how the hell is going on? Use it all the time.

Kevin Thomas  
What's the one thing you refuse to travel without?

John Vasquez  
Uh, my anacid pills. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It's important when you're traveling. No, no doubt.

John Vasquez  
yeah, yeah, sorry, it is. It's true. Like, I wish there were so many other things, but I forgot that. I'm like, nope, gotta turn around, go back to the house. It's an hour away. Gotta go back and get those pills.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
What's one skill you wish you had?

John Vasquez  
Calligraphy. There's something about fancy writing. I feel like I want to be able to write a fancy note to someone, because I feel like they can't say no, no matter what it is.

Kevin Thomas  
Your dream dinner guest, living or dead. Like I give you the music one, and you came up with nothing, and now you're gonna be like, I don't know any living or dead people. I don't have what to do here.

John Vasquez  
That I would want to the famous, not famous?

Kevin Thomas  
dream dinner guest. We make up the questions, but we don't change them later.

John Vasquez  
it. I mean, I do know who this it would be, Adele, because I want to be her new GBF.

John Vasquez  
Uh, for a minute, for a minute. I was a preschool, quote, unquote teacher, aide, whatnot. So I did it for like, a semester. Kids like me, I was, I was good. I don't know why. They just looked at me and they're, they were like, I want to hang out with you. That's great.

Kevin Thomas  
I like this one because I'm, I'm usually excited about the conference cities, and I'm a big Orlando fan. So John, what is your favorite conference city you've been to?

John Vasquez  
Oh, I talked to Jen a lot, so I feel like I'm under the gun now, if she's going to hear this, my favorite city, you know what? I really had a great time. It wasn't for the admins, too. But when we had the National Conference at Portland, I like Portland. Portland, I like to visit, yeah, not to live there.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Food was great. No question about that. Yeah. Well, the breweries are really good. Yes, what? What's, what's a guilty pleasure, TV that you're watching right now, something on Netflix, something on Hulu, like, is there something you're watching?

John Vasquez  
There's a couple of things. I'm watching some old school, some of them new school. So I'm going through my reruns of Buffy in anticipation for the reboot of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Fun. I'm also watching the Gilded Age because, you know what? I just love all those women in the fancy costumes, and just love the way they talk. Again. That goes back to the calligraphy thing. I feel like writing letters watching that. And then the other thing that I love watching I'm interested watching now is foundation on Apple. Because, yeah, so sci fi, horror, fancy women from, you know, the Gilded Age, yeah.

Kevin Thomas  
This is Brody, and I's chance to pitch if you're talking to sci fi, that if you haven't watched Resident Alien, you need to, because it just wrapped up a show. But is a fantastic one. Oh, good. Look at

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Goofy fun. Just really great.

Kevin Thomas  
If your life had a tagline right now, what would it be? And yes, I'm asking you hard ones now, because I think it's a lot of fun.

John Vasquez  
No animals were hard into making a video except a human.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That is fantastic. I'm just going to say it right, like, that's great.

John Vasquez  
That's what I think of Yeah. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You last one, you get an entire free day, no meetings, no emails. How are you spending it?

John Vasquez  
Ooh, I'm going kayaking and then eating some my favorite lunch, maybe at Zimmerman trying out Obama sandwich and then ending it at a brewery sitting outside drinking something something something local and solid.

Kevin Thomas  
That is fantastic, John. We are so pumped that you decided to do this, decided to join us, decided to go down the bold path of saying yes and putting yourself out there. So thanks for being a guest with us today. Brody, like, so fantastic was this?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, we, I think we should just keep saying Fantastic, fantastic, fantastic. It was awesome.

Kevin Thomas  
it was a good time. And here's the thing, anytime you're able to. Learn a little bit and hear about the just the journey that people have been on in their careers, like, How fantastic is that opportunity? And yes, I'm going to keep going fantastic, because it's just it speaks to the power and the influence and then the opportunity that we all have in the chairs that we sit in. And I keep coming back to that thought that John kind of led us into there with. We often think about the fact that we're changing lives, and just depending on those situations, that power could be even greater, and those moments can be really, really powerful for us to be a part of.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, you know, there was one, one thing that he said that's been kind of still hitting my brain really hard, and that is the impact of interacting with students on the regular right, even in our roles as administrators. I don't, I don't spend a ton of time with undergraduate students anymore in my job, and then every time I talk to undergraduates or even graduate students in my space, I'm just reminded like, Gosh darn it, this is where it's really at. Like, this is why we're doing the work. And I think finding intentional ways to interact with undergraduate students, even in our roles, when I think about connection, is the strategy. Is my theme. It's one thing I'm going to take away from our conversation today, like, I've got to make sure, certain that I'm doing some things this year where I'm interacting intentionally with undergraduates and learning more about their experience. That just has stuck with me in in the hour that we've spent today with John.

Kevin Thomas  
So as we get to an end here. Like, what's on your mind? Like, what's going on?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I was thinking about this today, like, I, you know, I'm starting to feel good about exercise again. I'm really ready to get back on the horse there. Like, I'm thinking about that. Doggone it. How about you, what's on your mind? Like, I don't know. I'm coming up blank, just like John did.

Kevin Thomas  
I really think this is that time of year where it's just I'm stuck in a lot of thoughts. I'm stuck in that thought of being 18 years old on a college campus, and I have a 16 year old that is going to start touring college campuses this fall, and the anxiety that comes with that, and some of the fear that comes with the unknown that is that journey for a 16 year old, even though he has a parent that works in the field and two parents that graduated from college and all those things, and he still has that anxiety. And so I think about all of those people that are that are coming to our college campuses and the journey ahead of them. I really, I'm really stuck in that thought. And then for the the folks that are, you know, coming to campus that have been there previously, that they're living this very exciting timeframe of their life that we all look back on with fondness and excitement and reminiscing in those moments of transformation and change that the John was talking about. Where he's at today is a long way from the belt buckle and windbreaker of his first trip to Ann Arbor, Michigan. Yeah, you know, like it's, we all have a little bit of that, not the belt buckle part. That's just John.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Is just John, but...

Kevin Thomas  
That's right. And so it's just, I think about that where people are at and how to meet them where they're at, because the journey can be such a powerful one. And I just think about the role and the impact you get to have with that and and this time of the year, I think it's probably more palpable that we're really just sitting in that seat of of being those people and other people's lives and other people's journeys.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I when, when you were talking, the one thing I was thinking about is, you know, I've worked at three or four different places in my professional life, and John, I think spoke to this very well. But every single place that I've ever been has kind of framed who I am today, like you grab small things from environments, from different campuses, and it really kind of builds your approach to the work, right? And, you know, we we talked with Dana in our last episode, and Dana had spent her entire career on the same place, and I think there's real great advantages to that, too. But in my experience, like it's just been so helpful to see higher ed in a in in many different lights, right, and, and, and it informs the way that we work with students. It informs the way that we think about systems on the campuses where we work. And I've just found tremendous value in in that breadth and depth of experience. Maybe that's what I'm thinking about right now. It's made me who I am, right, like I'm grateful. Helpful for my experiences at all the places I've served, right?

Kevin Thomas  
For the question you asked, John, what would you be doing if you weren't in higher ed? That one's so difficult, because you're right. It has shaped who we are and how we've gotten to this point. And I don't, I don't know the answer to that question, that that's a tough one. I mean, there are a lot of things that it could be, but wow. Like, it's, it's a powerful one. But here, here's a good transition for us. Brody, as we we wrap up some thoughts that are outside of higher education, it's the start of football season that's happening. Yeah? And so like, are you excited about the upcoming football season, NFL, college, any of the things that you think about happening there?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, didn't Hootie and the Blowfish sing the dolphins make me cry. I think that I want, I want to be hopeful, right? Like, I'm this massive Miami Dolphins fan living in central Illinois. And people are like, how did that happen? And I always have to tell them, you know, my my mom went to high school with Bob greasy, who's a Hall of Fame quarterback for the dolphins, won a couple Super Bowls in the 70s, and I just grew up loving the Miami Dolphins. And then before I really knew what I was supposed to do, Dan Marino came along, and then I was kind of hooked. And so it's been a love hate relationship, the dolphins haven't won a playoff game since 2000 I think it's the longest non playoff wind drought of any team right now in the league.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I'm not hopeful. 

Kevin Thomas  
We had a we had a plumber that came over to the house yesterday or Monday to fix something, and we handed them our credit card, which had a Minnesota Vikings logo on it. Of course it does. And he said, Oh, I want to be a Vikings fan. And I said, Well, why aren't you? And he said, I somehow got into it with the dolphins, and I just can't quit them. And I thought, I thought that's a terrible place to be when you want to be the fan of another team, but you just can't quit the dolphins, I know, so I'm looking forward to this fall. You know, as a Vikings fan, I just I love that the football aspect of things, whether it's college or professional, although those lines are pretty blurred right now they are, and I love the fact that today, John is starting his new role at Michigan, and he comes in with the pride of the Michigan blue and gold on and just ready for football season. And so it's an exciting time, and whether you're welcoming students back to campus or just those things that make that fall timeframe a little bit more special with just some football and sports and camaraderie and energy and optimism of our what our teams will do.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We apologize, right? If you're not a fan of football, maybe you're a fan of the marching band, which you can get excited and hyped up about the marching band, too, I guess.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I'm not a big vo Ohio State fan, but their band is killing it every year, and I'll watch that every time.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
whatever gets you excited about the new academic year, if you're listening in in higher ed, we hope you enjoy the start of the school year, that's for sure. But I think we got to call it a day today, don't we?

Kevin Thomas  
That's right. Good job to everyone. Thank you to our guest, John Vasquez, for joining us. Huge thanks to our I don't know what title. What title should we give Matt in? This is like he like our executive producer, let's say that, yeah, Matt Markin. Yeah, John or Matt, yes. Executive Producer, Matt Markin, let's put John back on for just a second, guys,

John Vasquez  
Gues! I finally remembered while you were talking, my song is impossible by Chantal.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Oh, that's great. That's fantastic. Okay, thanks. Bye, bye.

Kevin Thomas  
All right, for John and his impossibilities, we're going to sign off today until the next pickup meeting. Keep showing care and keep showing up. Yeah, do good.