Ep. 1 - Tara Stopfel Warden, University of Cincinnati

In the premiere episode of The Pickup Meeting, Kevin Thomas and Brody Broshears kick off their long-awaited podcast adventure! Their first guest? The unstoppable Tara Stopfel Warden from the University of Cincinnati! Tara dives into the powerful work she's doing to strengthen partnerships, redefine student success, and lead with a culture of clarity, comfort, care, and connection. She also shares what keeps her inspired, how she avoids burnout, and why she'd ditch higher ed for an ice cream shop.

Plus a lightning round of embarrassing songs, irrational fears, and petty hills to die on. Hit play and pull up a chair because this is your new favorite unfiltered higher ed hangout.

*The Pickup Meeting is a spinoff of the Adventures in Advising podcast!

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Transcript

Kevin Thomas  
And away we go. Hello everyone, and welcome to the first ever Pickup Meeting with Brody and Kevin. I am Kevin Thomas. I am one of your co hosts that's here for this monumental occasion. Wouldn't you say, Brody?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, monumental. And I'm Brody Broshears, and we're happy to be here, kind of doing the Pickup Meeting, right?

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I think we've said this has been years of conversation about doing a podcast, and probably minutes of preparation put into making it a real thing. And so here we are, right? Like getting around to this premise of the pickup meeting, and to really just spending some time together, to have a conversation, and really just focus on on our topic, and whatever that may be on any particular meeting, it's gonna, it's gonna rotate quite a bit. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It's been born based in a friendship over 10 years time, right? And we started talking about this podcast a couple years ago, and really came from the idea that, you know, our phone conversations are entertaining, at least to us, and every now and then my wife and your wife kind of thinks they're fun, too. And so here we are. It doesn't have to be organized or planned to be a lot of fun. We've learned a lot from each other in our roles based on those phone conversations, and now we're just going to bring it to you.

Kevin Thomas  
So the premise of The Pickup Meeting in this podcast is Brody and I have a lot of conversations. We probably talk to each other, as he said, several times a week on the phone, and it's probably being generous to say that most of the time those calls are like 30 to 45 minutes. And I'd say 30 minutes are spent on higher ed, other stuff is just TV, sports, all the things that are happening life in general. But we really picked up on, we're both big fans of The West Wing. And there's a line within The West Wing where Josh Lyman says, I don't have a desk right now, but I'm gonna go find a pickup meeting, right? And we do this in higher education all the time. Like, if I'm walking on my campus now, and I'm walking through, going to different buildings, like, I'll see somebody, and all of a sudden you're you're engulfed in this conversation, and you're having a meeting before you even get to the meeting. At the at my former campus at SIUE, like, if you wanted to catch a pickup meeting, you were walking through Starbucks to get to another building. And if you walk through Starbucks, you were finding a pickup meeting. And that's the premise of what we're doing here. And really just bringing a guest on every, every time we get together, and just really connecting with that guest and talking about all the things that are going on, but, but having some fun with it. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
We even kind of connected it to the sports piece too. Both of us really big sports fans, right? And the pickup game is sometimes the most fun that you have when you're out there doing your sporty stuff. And so I agree that kind of this randomness, kind of simultaneous conversations, where a lot of the work can get done, but a lot of a lot of learning happens too. And so we're really excited to be a part of this, and I'm looking forward to working with you, Kevin, like, this is just like one of our phone calls.

Kevin Thomas  
I think for the most part, right? Like, we're going to be pretty good about this. That's what I was going to mention, at least, right? Is it'll be like our phone calls, except there'll be far less cursing than normal. We're gonna do our best and and then, I guess the other part is, like, just letting folks know that, like, we're a little bit all over the place, right? Like, one minute we're gonna be talking about higher ed. And the next minute, we're going to be jumping to a random topic, and we're going to bring that to our guests too. So it'll be a good time for the audience. I do want to take a little time as we get started here, right like you and I have done previous episodes of the Adventures and Advising podcast and the feedback we've gotten is that we are two really funny people, and I think that's that's just ridiculous, but apparently we are, and so we're going to do our best to have some fun, get some laughs, and just talk about higher ed as we're here on The Pickup Meeting.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
And maybe we should, we promised ourselves we would do this. But like before we bring on our first guest, what's been going on in your world this summer? 

Kevin Thomas  
Man, I tell you, like, I'm not one of these people that take off time during the summer, right? Like it's not me, like I feel like summer is the busy time, it's the dreaming time, it's the strategizing time, and so I don't take a lot of time off. And so I will say, like, I've done a lot of movies here recently, you know, like, we're recording right near the Fourth of July, uh, holiday, and so, you know, I went saw the Jurassic World movie. I went saw f1 I got tickets on Thursday to go see, uh, Superman. I'm really excited about just seeing some summer blockbusters during this this time frame. What about you, my man?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I've. Had a weird summer physically, right, like, right at the end of the spring, I found out I had a torn meniscus that led to some back spasms, so I've been kind of on the mend there. And then, dude, I, you know this, I got the chicken pox. Like, I'm a 54 year old man, and I got the chicken pox. And let me tell you, do not want to do that. It's not something fun to go through. It was terrible. But I did have some time to get away, right? Went to Zion National Park and spent some time in Utah. Went to Vegas, kind of pre gaming before the annual conference for NACADA in Vegas here in October. But so that was a lot of fun. So I'm just trying to get back into into shape, get back to my fighting weight, and I saw a couple movies too this summer. But just trying to enjoy life.

Kevin Thomas  
All members of our audience, right? Like, all, like six of them at this moment are Googling, like, what's the oldest person to get chicken box? Like, that's what's happening at this moment. They're just blown away by it. We've lost them, they're not going to focus. They're focused on googling chicken pox information. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I do not recommend it. And I just had my physical with my brother, who's my doctor, and said, how quickly can I get the shingles vaccine? And I'm telling you the second I can do it. It's happening, because I don't want to play with either one of those anymore. Not fun.

Kevin Thomas  
No. Well, on that uplifting note, let's, let's get our guest on here and in listen. We've got formal introductions and all the things, but let's start this off with, we are honored that Tara Warden from the University of Cincinnati is our first ever guest on the pickup meeting. Tara is the Assistant Vice Provost for advising academic services and strategic partnerships at the University of Cincinnati. How about it? Say that I know Tara for now, what, six years, seven years, somewhere in that range. My first remembrance of Tara was as she was accepting her award for the Michael C. Holden Pacesetter Award, when she was giving her remarks for that, I was blown away and and I stand by this. I always love working with Tara because she's the smartest person in the room. I always because she just kills it. And what she does, you know, Brody and I were talking about this as we were prepped for today, that one of the best, if not the best, and I think we ended with the best presentation we have ever gone to is Tara's presentation on resources and getting more resources for your institution that she's done several times. It's just the best presentation. And so if you ever get a chance to hear her or go see her present at acada or any other conferences, it's probably a healthy, healthy trip for you. So we're very glad to have Tara Warden with us here today.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I just would add, Tara, like, if I needed one person to tell the advising story on a college campus, you would be the person I would choose. It absolutely your session is mind blowingly amazing. And I think what you've been able to do at the University of Cincinnati, we could talk about that a little bit more, but your, your ability to tell that story is just, it's next level, amazing.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Brody, I have to say, so we've got a little mutual admiration society going on then, because, and this is one of the fun reasons that we're all together for this first podcast. I, you know what, what you're saying just blows me away. But I I know that the reason that I'm able to do the work that I'm doing is because I have colleagues like you all that really are teaching me all along as I go. And I'm a sponge. I want to learn everything. I want to make sure that we're doing the best that we can do. And I think some of the things that I get to learn from Kevin around strategy and Brody around culture. Just those are, those are some of the things that we use on our campus every day. So you get to be part of our story, which is part of why it's fun to get to have this time with you both.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Fantastic. 

Kevin Thomas  
How great is that? No, Tara, I have to say. So I don't, I don't remember what the topic was last week, but Brody called me and he was just like, he was in a mood, right? Like, in like, audience members, like, when Brody's in a mood, like, it's, He's a beast, right? Like, it's just, like everything sucks and everything's negative, and he's just really struggling. And so he's walking through this premise of things, and like, I'm hearing all the things that are going on, and he's like, What do you think about this? And I'm like, as much as I would love to say that this is a me answer to you, like I need to be that person. I was like, bro, do you know who you need to call? And he's like, Tara. And I'm like, Yes, you need to call Tara like she's gonna help you here, right? He has the answer to this situation, like she's gonna she's gonna solve all your problems make you smile.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's true, and I haven't made that phone call, but. Now you're here, so I'll just tell you, we need to chat offline after this.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Anytime, whenever you're ready. Brody, this is the fun stuff, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is the fun stuff. So we have some questions. Go ahead. Yeah, go get us going, Kevin.

Kevin Thomas  
So listen, any, any good pickup meeting, right? Just starts with, Hey, how are things going? Like, what's, what's going on in Cincinnati? Like, what's taking your time? You know? What do you what are you getting into this summer that's really like, making it just a big part of your everyday life?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh, gosh, there's so many things going on right now, just, and I think that you all feel this, right? Everybody in higher ed is feeling this. And it's like you said earlier, Kevin, the idea that we have slow Summers is not a thing for many. We are not on nine month contracts, and summers get extraordinarily busy. But you know, it's, it's really, it's interesting, because in Cincinnati, and particularly at the University of Cincinnati, part of what just lights me up every day, this is a conversation we have sometimes right with with some of our institute participants, is what lights you up. And the thing that really, really lights me up is that we get to be a power engine for opportunity, and it's unique that we get to do that in the way that we do here at UC because we have everything from internationally competitive, to open access right here in the urban core. And so what we're able to do for our students and the you know, the meaning and the purpose that we all get from being able to create educational opportunity and make sure that we're opening our doors to students that might not have had an opportunity previously with access to an institution, and then also making sure they get to graduation is huge. So, you know, that's the that's the thing that that on the days that are hard, really keeps me going, and also keeps me wanting to be where I am and just appreciate the power that this institution brings to be able to do that. And I think that it's, it's rare and special. Not every institution has everything from two year colleges to internationally competitive programs and and a real dedication to student success and making sure that we're continuing to prove those outcomes.

Kevin Thomas  
That's fantastic. Sounds like an exciting summer? 

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, the summer in particular...So one of the things that's interesting that I'm getting to do this summer that's new is I've been able to work for many, many years. I've been here for 22 years at UC but I've been able to work heavily around student success. But as my role has continued to expand around strategic partnerships, I'm getting to focus on the access entry points that are student success focused. So it's not admissions work, but it's deep, deep work with the Cincinnati Public Schools in particular, and the superintendent of Cincinnati Public Schools, who's brand new in her role in a very embattled, financially embattled district right now, when I first met with her, I said, you know, our goal is to get to yes for anything that you need in partnership with the University to try to help make sure we are well supporting both our Cincinnati Public Schools and the people of Cincinnati and the future economic growth for the area. And her eyes lit up, and she said, you know, years ago, we were able to take some of our principles to the Harvard Leadership Institute. Can you build one for me here at UC and so we've done that based on an institute model you all are very familiar with. And we will be launching the CPS principles institute this August, and it will, it's being tailored for all of the 65 principals across elementary, middle and high schools within the CPS district, and we're very excited about it. We've We've developed an incredible curriculum for it, and we're going to be doing some splashy things, and, frankly, also really trying to provide a VIP type of experience, because it's important that these principals really understand how critical they are in our pipeline and and we're doing some additional things that are really exciting, like building out professional development with our education faculty for the advanced math teachers in the district. And this is something that came out of the work that we started with them partnering on a gear up grant and identifying how difficult it was to get students math ready for college, and realizing that this, you know, the school was such thin resources, was so focused on getting students through algebra that the teachers that were trying to teach pre-cal and calculus weren't getting a lot of help or support or resourcing to do that, so now we're standing up professional development for those teachers. We're doing something very similar for the counselors. Frankly, just as a matter of care, we started a counselor happy hour. Education is hard, and if you're a. Yeah, and if you are a counselor in our urban schools, it's really hard. And so we just started hosting happy hours. And out of those happy hours came this idea that, you know, if we could do something for them, one of the best things would be space. And I thought, this is, this is easy, right? We can provide a space. They said we don't have a good space to do our annual counselor development day. So I thought, well, we can provide space. And the next thing I know, it's not just the space we're providing. They've asked us to craft the curriculum for the CPS counselors, and both the math teachers and the counselors just walked away. And frankly, some of them came in salty. I should tell you that they were salty that the coffee service wasn't working correctly at the beginning. Was just jaded that they were going to hear anything or that they were going to get lectured to by the university. But our approach has definitely been one of partnership and humility and learning, because what our public schools are dealing with is very different than what the schools are dealing with that that send most college students to college, right? And so we've been in a space of learning with them, but they've but they've walked away from from those engagements, saying this was the best thing we've ever done. This was the best professional development we've ever gotten. And so that partnership has been really fun. So when you're asking about this summer in particular, those are some things that are going on this summer that I'm super excited about.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
You know, Tara i, we are working with Hope Chicago, here at Illinois State and the noble schools in the city of Chicago, and our folks that are really leading that charge within university, college, they have thoroughly enjoyed those partnerships, and we're starting to see an impact, because we're building those relationships on The front end. So I think that approach is really, really important. I getting getting people involved that are working with these students at the elementary, middle school and high school levels. It's made a huge difference for us. We're having a lot of success with that hope Chicago group. So bravo to you. That sounds amazing.

Kevin Thomas  
I am not providing happy hour. So like listen, this is learning through the podcast right here, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Absolutely, that is something we need to focus on. 

Kevin Thomas  
You do a happy hour, they will be happier.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, it's interesting. It was, it was based in a concept of a counselor care initiative. I you know, we we talk when, whenever our student orientation leaders come in each year, our orientation director is gracious and invite me, since I'm a supervisor, to greet the to greet the student leaders. And I always tell them, I really want them focused on accomplishing our 4C/s for our students. And that's clarity, comfort, care and connection, and if they've achieved that for a student, you know, by the end of orientation, then they've done their job. But the more we've gone on, the more I realize that that's so critical for not only for our staff, but also for our partners. They want to know that they matter. They want to know how their work matters. They want to be clear about what it is that we can do together and what we are doing together, but that that culture of care is really, really important. And that starts, you know, when you're talking about partnership, it's all about relationship. And that starts with a with that culture of care. And it's, you know, we weren't strategically trying to start planning professional development for the for the CPS counselors, but it just it evolved from that. And so that's, that's one of the wonderful things that those those relationships and that ability to provide some care and support and say, you know, your work is our work, and we're just on two different sides of the timeline. And let's see what we can do together. And it's been amazing how that's grown organically. 

Kevin Thomas  
Tara for that clarity, comfort, care and connection, thought, right? Like that culture of care that you're talking about, like, where did that come from? Right? And maybe this is a similar answer, but I don't think you started off saying, I want to be in the position I'm currently at. Like, that's not where your life journey was at when you were, like, a 10 year old running around. I want to be a Provost, you know, like, but like, where did that come from, that culture of care, and especially those four and like, where do you think you felt like you picked that up in that journey.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
You know, that's a really good question. Kevin, I you know, I think some of the, some of the language of it there was, there was a conference that was attended by one of our folks. We could never figure out where those four seeds in particular came from. But the reason that I loved it, so I want to give credit to to whomever may have patented that we've we've searched and searched and searched to find out where that came from in the four C's. But the reason that I loved it and picked it up was because it really explains my ethos and desire to well, perhaps what it explains is my method of approach to being able to. Feed in our work, and I am a deep, deep believer that every single person and it doesn't matter whether you're talking about a prospective student, it doesn't matter whether you're talking about a staff member, whether you're talking about a family member, a loved one really wants to be seen and heard and understood and valued and able to contribute. And I think that that's universal in terms of people finding meaning in places and opportunities, and when they don't find that they're not in the right place and they're not in the right opportunity. And so, you know, my leadership philosophy is really about designing environments in which people can thrive, and that's true in my work. It's true in my home. It's true in my community engagement and and for me, that just works, that that feels, that feels right to me, right. Everybody's got their own internal compass and their own strengths and skills. And for me, those are the things that make, make the biggest difference. So what I've found is that when we can do those things, when we compare strategy and an understanding of best practice with those outcomes in mind, right? Those foresee outcomes in mind, we can really, really accomplish something meaningful and big.

Kevin Thomas  
You know, I think that it's interesting, right? Because, like, I think good leaders in body, what you're talking about and but I think my thing is, as we move up to various positions in administration, and this is maybe even a harder question, like, how do you ensure that, like, you're cared for and you're not just burning your candle down to the to the wick, you know, like, just all the way out. Like, like, what are you doing to, like, ensure that you're, you're feeling that care, that you're a part of that culture that's there, and not just that you're taking care of everybody. Like, how are you being taken care of? Like, what are the things you do for that? I know that's gonna be a tough question. I can see, I can see this one, right? 

Tara Stopfel Warden  
It would be a tough question if I hadn't gone and gotten a massage last night from my favorite massage here twice a year, and but this is part of, frankly, again, this is part of where I learned from Brody. Brody teaches about happiness and joy and meaning and making sure that we are, you know, bringing our whole selves and our full selves and our work and how to stay healthy and balanced. And that's one of the things that I've come to understand as the pressures and the challenges that are facing education and facing all of us in our institutions get harder sometimes that, you know, there's those places where you've got to take care of yourself, but, but I'll also say for me, taking care of myself is very rooted in those relationships. When, when I'm able to sit down and have a conversation with a colleague, and it's, you know, Kevin, you and I do this a lot. We'll sit down and we're like, rapid firing around ideas and strategy. And how do we do this at another elevated level, it's that nourishes my soul and my energy, I guess, is part of it. It nourishes the passion that I have that can get really dulled sometimes by the challenges that we're constantly facing. So you know, when I'm in the in a space of starting to feel like all of our Student Success work keeps getting pulled back by the volume and the level of financial unmet need and the increasing financial demands on our students. Sometimes it feels like we're, you know, not just being salmon swimming upriver, but it gets even harder than that over time, and I can have conversations with friends and colleagues who are finding ways and finding ideas. And, you know, we're sort of, maybe in some regards, we're nibbling around the edges at all the strategy that we can utilize to do something for our students. It excites me when we find new ideas. And the innovative space, you know, is incredibly refreshing for me. So the relationships are important because they open up opportunities for for the creation, for the innovation. And those conversations, the pickup meetings, exactly as you have framed this, are the places where you find those synergies that result in these innovations that are exciting to share. And there's some industries that are very, very proprietary, and some parts of higher ed that are very proprietary. They don't share their secret, but in the Student Success world, we do, we share all the time, and that's one of the best things about it.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, it's great, right? That you mentioned the whole that we have these pickup meetings that are beyond this podcast, and how this really started for the audience, the three of us that are on this call are members of the administrators Institute faculty, and have been for several years. And it's one of these things and I don't think it matters if it was as an attendee or as a faculty member or whatever it is. I always come back from those events in February or through interactions, we have various planning things that we do for that, and I walk out of my office, or I'm driving the car home, or whatever it is, and it's just like it's such an energy that you get from feeding off of each other and all of the good that's happening, but even for all the bad that's that's going on, right? Like that, it's like you're not alone. Yeah, you've got these people that you can rely on, that you can call, that you can connect with, that are gonna make you feel better, so that you just don't feel so out there, like you're right? It's just such a powerful thing. Brody, you waiting to jump in? I feel like you are like...

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I mean, I wanted to, I wanted to kind of move in a different direction, but, but it's, it's, it's 100% true, right? Misery loves company. And I think we're navigating a lot of change in higher ed right now, but I we can come back to that, because I think that that's some place where I, I think the three of us really work hard is kind of leading through this massive changes. But I wanted to kind of talk more origin story Tara I kind of, I don't know if you know this, but I was kind of aware of Tara Warden before I really knew Tara Warden, and that was I got my chops in exploratory advising world, right, working with students that didn't know what it is that they wanted to do. And when I started that work, I was like, what institutions, what persons are doing? Really great work in that space. And that was an area where you were doing great work, right? Working with our exploratory students, students that come to college with no specific plan in mind. What is it about that work that's informed the work that you're doing now? I i find that now on campuses today, just more generally, that we, we aren't really doing our best work with students that are coming to explore but I think there was a lot that I learned from working with undecided students that have formed the way that I want to work with all students, which is, you know, kind of all part of the college experience? What was it about that population that you really loved, and how have you used what you learned in that space to kind of do the work that you're doing now?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Brody, thank you for that. I did not know that story, so I appreciate you sharing that I am you know, it's interesting, because when I came to the University of Cincinnati to open up the center for exploratory studies for the first time, I had no background in academic advising. My background was across a range of different student affairs areas where I had been able to either build or rebuild student services and supports to create greater outcomes for students. And the funny thing is, sometimes, you know, I, like many of us, I got my start in Residence Life, and sometimes today I will, I will jokingly say I'm just an overgrown ra even today, because I was fortunate at the age of 19, as we were opening the doors of the residence hall for the first time, after we'd all gone through training, to really, really feel an incredible sense of purpose. And so I was fortunate to figure out early on that I wanted to work with college students, and especially outside the classroom. I like teaching too, but I especially like working outside the classroom. So I had a good background in history, in student affairs, housing and Res Life. I did every single role there was to do in housing and Res Life, from ra all the way up through the director of the department, and had worked in Judicial Affairs, working as Associate Dean of Students. I'd worked in career development, and it was the career development experience and interest, frankly, I had been super interested in career development, even when I was in grad school, that led me to come to us the and open up the center for exploratory studies. And I told them, You need to know, I don't have advising background, but I know how to build design and really make sure that we have accomplished some high impact outcomes for students. And the wonderful thing about that was we took the student at the time, it was called our undecided student population, from being a population of students that was very, very low retention rate. And within four years, we had made certain that we had accomplished a level of retention with undecided students that for the students that chose to be undecided, their retention was surpassing the student retention for the College of Arts and Sciences overall, and that was pretty Yeah, and that's sustained over time, but we did that through really quality design. And so my method of approach, I need to give great credit to Nick. Tata, because while I understood how to do design and build, a big part of that was stepping in and very, very quickly and intensively, learning every best practice I possibly could. So I sat with the Chair of the what was then called the Commission on undecided, exploring students for hours during an annual conference, I did all the reading and the research that Virginia Gordon had published and and all the other colleagues to make sure that we were designing something that was going to work exceptionally well for students. And our ethos when we first opened the office was, I said, I don't care if a student is walking in the door just asking for a tissue, we're going to find them a tissue, okay? And so it was really that deep culture of care, but a very strategic approach to understanding where these students were, a data informed understanding of the fact that, in fact, most of them were not undecided. About two thirds of them were coming in and had been referred to that program because they couldn't get into the program they wanted, so they were decided, but not yet in that program. So we started doing a lot of parallel planning with those students. We didn't call it Plan B, because that feels like a second choice, but a lot of parallel planning with those students to help them understand that they likely had more than one good fit major. The short story is, over time, that university wide focus led to roles in university wide leadership, which I think is very common, honestly, for people that are in roles like ours, where we've come to begin to lead, both advising and then increasingly, student success work across the universities. Many people have their background in undecided, exploratory students.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Kevin, did you have a housing background too? Are we all housing alums?

Kevin Thomas  
I think we all are housing. I think it comes down to the summer part of this, right? Like, like, when people are like, Oh, some are slow, nothing slow in housing, right? Nothing slow. And so there's, like, a work ethic that comes with some of those foundational things. But Tara, I don't think I knew that you had a judicial background with, like, a Dean of Students Office, wow, this says it too. Like, like, this is why you don't blink at anything, right? Because you've seen it all. You are to housing. You are to judicials now exploratory and advice, like, you've seen it all.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, once you've had to expel a sociopath, there's not much else that's just that this scary.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that's true. Kevin and I have talked a little bit about this. I in my two years at my current institution, one of the things that I've I think undervalued in my time in advising administration, when we start to think about student success, is policies as roadblocks, curriculum as roadblocks. Can you can you speak to kind of thinking about retention beyond the work that we do with students, and thinking about it in terms of, you know, retention and student success is a byproduct of all of the students experience, not just how we treat them in the advising world, in the student support world. And what I found is lots of leverage here to impact policy in real positive ways, and to think about curriculum differently so that we have the greatest impact in student success and retention. How is that playing out at the University of Cincinnati in your role right now?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, so yes, two big different things as as as you're asking those questions. Brody, one of the things that we did just a few years ago was with an understanding that we were not yielding as many students as we had. We never yield as many students as you have applying. But we realized that while our applications were increasing, our student yield wasn't increasing. So we took a deep look with a consultancy partner at what the entering new student experience was, and one of the things that we we had all known, but we came to appreciate, at a whole nother level of horror, how incredibly complicated we make things for students entering a university. And it's because, you know, quite often, every department is doing their own thing, their messaging to students their own ways, without an awareness of how that impacts the student experience. A lot of the messaging, a lot of the policy, a lot of the business practices, are often designed for what works for the department rather than what makes sense in the total experience for the student, and so we identified 75 different business practices that we needed to change at the university. Wow and very, very aggressively undertook that. I would say, it's a project. It was a bunch of small projects, both in communication, in the awarness of which steps we were expecting throughout the course the student experience, and we were taught by our consultant group that we really need to make the most of the moments that matter. And that became a real mantra and a and a focal point for us, because we were making an awful lot of moments that should not matter. Like, for example, you get right, you get your the moment that a student and their family right, gets their offer of admission, should be one of the most celebrational things. And this is a moment of great anticipation, right, receiving your letter, receiving your notice that you've been admitted to the university that you want to go to should be nothing but a celebration. And our admissions letter was filled with residency requirement policy information, right or or how to waive your student health insurance was taking multiple steps and multiple touches from families. So what we realized is we had several business practices that were interfering with creating a really, really fine student experience upon entry. We had departments that were trying to load orientation with anything and everything that everybody wanted a student to know, rather than thinking about, how do we create a very high quality student experience through orientation, by giving them what they most want and need to know, creating that culture of care and connection, both with other students, which we utilize, an almost entirely student run orientation program. We only have three professional staff and a campus of 53,000 students running our orientation. It is very much based on the military model of leadership, where the older in the military cadets, right? So our older student leaders are leading our newer student leaders, our student orientation leaders, and it works exceptionally well, but, but the entire business process piece allowed us to fix a lot of things and to provide a lot more streamlined communications for students, and that was, that was a really, really important piece of the business process. But in terms of curriculum, Brody, I'm I'm glad that you asked about that, because I think that there's, there are places where we're thinking very carefully about the volume of credit that students are bringing in, and then trying to design for that. In Ohio, our dual enrollment model is called College Credit Plus. And for a long time, and this is one of the offices in my area, and for a long time, College Credit Plus, was something we were doing as a compliance mechanism with a state expectation. It was seen as a revenue loser. It was a service to the community more than it was a strategy we have, you know, in realizing that what we were doing was offering opportunities, but students were coming in, they were it was sort of a credit accumulation race, right? So it was, how many college credits can I get before I come here? And then, you know the advisors? And you know what the advisors see when they see a transcript full of credits that are random as a student walks in the door and they're trying to fit into a certain degree program. So what we started doing is building out very specific we call them launch. You see college credit tracks, college to career tracks that are focused on allowing students a very specific curriculum model while they're in high school that will accomplish a significant amount of degree completion that's directly applicable to a program that they wanted to pursue once they once they arrive at the university. So instead of this very random accumulation of credit that so many were doing, we actually just graduated two students who completed high school and their degrees at the exact same time, and this is receiving them. It's already, I think that news story got 4.7 million views at last I saw it. But these that these tracks, have been incredibly interesting to schools and parents and families, because it's one thing to think, oh, I want, I want my student to get college credit, but it's another thing to say my students going to have completed two years worth of robotics curriculum right by the time they start college. Then, by the way, because everything has gotten so much more expensive for families. You know, you asked about exploratory studies earlier these tracks and the students ability to go to college has become less and less and less seen as something that's just good for a student to do, and more and more seen as something that's got to have very, very specific career utility. We could, we could talk about how that's impact. Affecting students and exploratory spaces and what the opportunity is there but, but I do think that this, these curricular designs that we're creating that don't just blur the lines, but actively create college curriculum starting in high school with a very direct path and connection are the next way. Now I do have some questions about how we how we need to design around the first year experience differently when a student walks in the door.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, but you know what you're talking about, and I think this is what is such a great thing for administrators and leaders to do when they're looking at things and they feel like it's like they're stuck in the mud, they're just hitting the status quo. And that's all the things that are there. Like, like, a lot of schools do effort, Right? But what you're talking about is purpose, and I think that is such a powerful thing that you know, when you put the effort and add the purpose in, like, then you can achieve what you're talking about. And those are steps that get to happen, as opposed to just what we're doing, things, right? Yeah, but purpose matters.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that's, that's the intersection of strategy, right? I mean, effort and purpose leads to good strategy, and that's what we're really talking.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Yeah. And I think that the the ability to make sure, you know, when we talk about student success. We tend to think about measures of institutional success in terms of retention, degree progression, graduation, career education outcomes, or career outcomes. But you know, student success, really, at the end of the day, is about helping the student achieve their goals, and for them to not just complete a degree, but to complete a meaningful degree. That's something that really meets their purpose is incredibly, incredibly important, and so that that's part of the magic of advising, right?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
It is. Absolutely.

Kevin Thomas  
Tara, we were at a segment of of the first podcast that we're gonna we're gonna throw a regular at you. This is the first time we're doing this, one of our segments really, this is like 10 to 12 rapid fire questions. Okay, don't need a lot of thought. But, like, I'm not going to cut you off, obviously, but...

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Like that, Ellen DeGeneres buzzer thing that...

Kevin Thomas  
But, it's a mixture, right? So you're going to get about half higher ed and then half about you, which is probably a quarter one, right? Because you don't want to. None of us want to talk about us. We just want to talk about the job. Sure. Okay, so what is the most overrated student success buzzword?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh, um, there's so many but rapid, and I'm thinking, Oh, God, analytics.

Kevin Thomas  
Okay, that's good. That is good. Now I feel like I'm not I'm gonna catch myself when I'm using it all right. What is your most irrational fear?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
My most irrational fear is of possums, really? Oh, fancy. Don't like them at all.

Kevin Thomas  
Where did that come from? 

Tara Stopfel Warden  
I have no trauma around a possum. It's just and the funny thing is, we had lots of we had every kind of animal you can imagine, including including mice and gerbils and guinea pigs and ducks and rabbits. We had every kind of animal growing up, but I can't stand the thought of a possum for some reason.

Kevin Thomas  
Do you have an answer for this one? 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Do I?

Kevin Thomas  
You can get in this rapid fire here. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I don't know that I'm really afraid of that much of anything, right? Like, I know lots of people that are afraid to fly, and, gosh, you've kind of caught me off guard. Even I don't know that I have an irrational fear.

Kevin Thomas  
Listen, you're a co host. Be ready here. Come on. Let's go. Mine is for sure, mascots, I find them to be completely creepy.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
So you're in the perfect industry, right?

Kevin Thomas  
Mascots and umbrellas. I'm just irrationally fearful of both of them.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I just don't enjoy umbrellas at all. I'm like, What's the use? By the time you get it open and close, you're soaked anyway,

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Yeah, one of our advising association execs is terribly afraid of balloons, so we can't have balloons at any of the advising celebration.

Kevin Thomas  
That's awesome. Change every campus should make tomorrow.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh gosh, investing in capacity for the student supports that are actually really moving the outcomes. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, I think Go ahead, Kevin.

Kevin Thomas  
No, I was jumping, so you're good. 

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
No, you're good. You go.

Kevin Thomas  
All right. Most embarrassing song, you know, all the words to?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
 I don't know all the words to Baby Got Back. We're gonna have to leave that to Jennifer Aniston, I guess,

Kevin Thomas  
Like, in my mind it was like, Chumbawamba tub thumping, or whatever, all right, like, that's, that's the first one that came to my mind. That's like, I better know all the words. And I'm really not real proud that I know all the words to that song.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, you know what, Kevin, it's okay, because there are only a handful words in that song,r

Kevin Thomas  
Right? That's why I know it all.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Kevin, you know what? I had a friend in high school, and it felt like one summer that Whitney, Houston, I want to dance with somebody song was on every minute of every second in the 80s, and that song is in my brain seared. I cannot not sing it, and I wrote a second of that song.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
I feel like you're picking on me by saying that, because I think that you might know that as badly as I sing, the only person I will do karaoke with is Kim Smith, one of our one of our dear partners and friends as faculty of the Institute, and she makes me sing that song with her.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
That's fantastic. Well, I'll sing it because I know every word.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Okay, you're up next time. You're going to be in the mix and in the middle. I'm going to be the backup dancer. I'm just going to pretend to sing because nobody wants to hear me sing. I'm just out there for Kim, to be honest,

Kevin Thomas  
At the recent NASFAA conference, apparently LeVar Burton was the keynote. Oh, the conference, which I'm like, one that's fantastic. And but my financial aid director, Kim Stubbs comes back, and she's like, Yeah, the guy from uh, Star Trek. And I'm like, and Reading Rainbow, she goes, I don't remember that. And I'm like, No, and Reading Rainbow. And then, like, for the next week, the only song stuck in my head was the Reading Rainbow theme song, and I'm just walking around butterflies in the sky, like, just non stop, and I felt like like but I'm not embarrassed by that. I love that. I know all the words this, what is your go to data point for you, for your strategy meetings with maybe your leadership?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, we're our institution is constantly looking at first year retention, and there's so many others, right? I think that the most important one to look at, really, is degree progression and then disaggregating that to see where your retention hotspots are and your student persistence hotspots.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, I know we didn't get a lot into the recent legislative changes and some of that. You know, it's just it feels like it's ever evolving the one big, beautiful bill that passed here recently. But I do think that some of the accountability measures in there are interesting because they're different than what we've been held to, right and interesting to see how that really shapes higher ed as we move forward, and so maybe on a return visit, we'll get to see about how some of those things have evolved and changed for what we're all working in right now.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Yeah, I think so too. And as we were talking about, you know, backgrounds with career development, and Brody and I were talking about exploratory students and so forth, I do think that whereas in higher ed, the history of higher ed has not been terribly career focused, I do think that that's a lot of what we're seeing legislatively. And I think that, you know, the trick that we're going to have to master is how to make sure that we are being responsible and accountable in those ways that truly prepare students for their careers, while also not becoming just technical training that you know, we've got to really be in a space of innovation and creativity and research in a way that that really continues to re emphasize discovery. So yeah, so that that part is going to be tricky.

Kevin Thomas  
Alright, we're going to fire your way on a couple more shots here, or questions here. What food do you secretly hate, but pretend to like?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh, pretend to like. I tolerate. I don't like soggy bread, but I come from Louisiana, and bread pudding is a thing down in Louisiana, so I will tolerate trying to eat a little bit of bread pudding whenever I have the chance, because I feel like it defies my roots, not to but I cannot stand soggy bread.

Kevin Thomas  
What is the one policy you'd eliminate on every campus? And while you're thinking, right, this is this whole conversation of like, how many of our policies are built in 1980 that we still have today? And do they make sense? And so, like, sometimes there's those, like, what would the policy be like?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Yeah, any policy that withholds a student's grades, you know, I feel like we've gotten past that at this point. But any policy, you know, you withholding students grades because of a library fine or a parking fine or something like that, it's absolutely not. Sense, and some of it's even withholding registration due to things that have nothing to do with student academic progression.

Kevin Thomas  
What's a hill you die on no matter how petty, this doesn't have to be professional. It can be personal too. Like I'm thinking, listen, these people that put two spaces behind periods. Listen, stop it.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
You asked me that question, and I was going deeper. So I'm that person that annoys you with the two spaces behind a period. Honestly, candidly in my work, the thing that I can't tolerate is people that want to make decisions that are not student centered, yeah, that are that are specifically not supportive of students, but but better for other reasons of convenience.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Kevin, you should absolutely be able to get a runner Home from third with less than two outs. That is, I'm willing to die on like, why does that not happen? These are professionals, Kevin Thomas. I have 90% of the time.

Kevin Thomas  
I agree with you. And anytime that happens in a ball game, because Brody and I are both Cardinal fans, I will get a text message from Brody that says, expletive, expletive, expletive. Like, why can't this happen? And you know, like, it's just, it's filled.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Sorry, it's petty, but I don't care.

Kevin Thomas  
One thing students wish administrators understood?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
How completely different their lives and realities are than ours.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, that's a great answer.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah. All right, this is, uh, maybe second to last one here, if you were a campus building, what building would it be and why?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
I feel like I would be the student center. You know, we call it our University Center, but a place where the students are all gathering and living their real lives.

Kevin Thomas  
Listen for the audience, listening at home. I love this because we're on screen where we can see each other, and there's certain questions I've asked where it's like, you get a view, and like, I've asked the question, and then Tara has this moment of, like, Are you freaking kidding me? Like, this is the question. You can just see it happening. Like, what is this is the greatness of picking me. Hey, so, like, kind of a wrap up to the rapid fire things, if you didn't do what you were doing, like, if you didn't work in higher ed, like, I know we all love our jobs in higher ed, and we could say we found our way, stumbled our way, earned our way, whatever it is, into that path, what would you be doing instead? Like, what's the alternate reality of Tara's professional life or passion of what she would be doing?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh, I would totally open up a little ice cream shop on the beach.

Kevin Thomas  
Like, like, multiple flavors are we stick sticking simple? Like, what does this look like?

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, for a little while, I thought, you know, we could do some really, really elegant, sophisticated flavors. And then I thought, That's not fun for anybody, especially the kids. So, you know, really fun, crazy, cool flavors, all the different things they want to throw in there, just honestly, something that's easy and fun. People come in there to be happy or have a treat, or it's, you know, the beach and ice cream. How do you get how do you get into a better head space than that?

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I've had ice cream the last two days.

Kevin Thomas  
That's a great job, right? 

Tara Stopfel Warden  
How about you? 

Kevin Thomas  
Oh my gosh, you know, like, I really think that I would have ended up in something in journalism. Like, I really do, like, and I know that that's a field that's got various challenges right now, but I love to write, right? Like, I really love to write about what's going on, and did a lot of time in sports, but also covered a bunch of other things and just regular news. And like, I think I would ended up there. Like, I think that would have been a good career. And like, probably would have had a lot of fun with that work.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
I would say I was doing this for a little while, while I was working as an advisor, and that's broadcasting, like radio, TV work, mostly sports commentary. I loved it, and I think that's what I would have done if I hadn't been doing this.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Well, see, this is why the podcast is perfect for the two of you. And you two have been such lovely, gracious hosts. I wish I could do this with you all the time. We'll have to do this beyond the podcast. We'll do this more personally.

Kevin Thomas  
Absolutely, that's right. Well, Tara, thank you so much for being our first guest. We're gonna, we're gonna let you sign off so that we can, we can sign some things off, but any, any final words for our audiences as we finish up today.

Tara Stopfel Warden  
Oh gosh, I would just say, stay strong in the face of all the things that we're heading into right now and trying to navigate, because we have got to keep the good people in the work, to keep making sure that students are going to get what they need, and handling my inner Brody, I would say, make sure to take care of yourself in the process. Do those things you need to do to make that happen. I think I'm going to start going. Back to yoga. I stopped that for a little while. It's time to restart. 

Kevin Thomas  
Thank you so much, Tara. We appreciate you coming on. Yeah, we'll get through the first one. We did absolutely audience members, I will say that Brody and I were super nervous about, uh, this first podcast. I think once we get a good flow going, we're going to figure it all out, but man, like, Tara was fantastic.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, when you have a person like that who can carry you through the first one, it doesn't matter if you're bad, right? Like, she's great. That's all that really matters. I loved the clarity, comfort, care and connection, right? Those 4c that's that's really just great, right kind of frame our work in that space. I love that so much.

Kevin Thomas  
Yeah, you know, growing up in advising, I had a boss, Dr. Ellen _____, wonderful supervisor, mentor, friend and and every year, at the start of the academic year, we would come up with those door hangers, right like that. Essentially would have, like, a motivational message on it, and then on the back of it, it had all the service offices that faculty or students could use. And we put them on every door on the campus at Western Kentucky University, right? And we get our student leaders to go, and we put them on all the doors, and every one of them said something that Tara touched on, which is culture of care, right? These offices like that we all work in, and the support services that are there are there for this culture of care. And I thought Tara really articulated that purpose really well, and what we do in our work.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Yeah, having those core functions identified and living them out is really important, right? I think it's healthy for offices and spaces to kind of really think about the work in that way, because it can frame your actions so much better, from my perspective.

Kevin Thomas  
All right, folks, I think we're here to assign off and listen first pickup meetings done. So we'll go with Same time, same agenda, and see you all at the next pickup meeting.

Michael "Brody" Broshears  
Absolutely great job. Kevin.